Wow the loot, Shops and crafting is really bad.

[Zaela Zhezzaia]

I am finding it hard to play this game. As I am having a hard time getting a good gun. Even killed a sniper enemy and I got useless junk off her body. Fact it gotten to the point I stop looting places as there seems to just be junk and crafting mats. Yet crafting is pointless and selling stuff is pointless.

Shops have nothing but junk. Like the main weapon shop only has a single gun in it. No ammo. Armor shop almost never gets new armor. I am really down to my last mag of bullets and I can not seem to find a place that sells pistol ammo.

I can not craft hardly anything as I need a freaking skill book to even craft them. What was the point spending crafting skill points on crafting perks. When crafting needs a book to even craft them.

[mm.324]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

Ursprungligen skrivet av mm.324:

I find it hilarious that nobody from Dark Crystal Games has responded in this thread, in spite of the fact that they state "Encased community is the most important for us - we are going to follow up those closely for your feedback on the game." at the end of every one of their announcements.

They're probably hiding the fact that itemisation is such a failure in this game. It was a bad design decision from the get-go, likely driven by some incompetent nincompoop who never even played Fallout but made a case about how "popular" "modern" games use random loot to "increase replayability" and "cut costs". At this point they're too afraid to question it because it will reveal incompetence, and also because "too late to change the system" (likely a load of bull as well, they just don't want to admit their mistakes and do extra work/crunch).

Developers, especially small ones with a niche market, should learn to listen to their fanbase/target audience and hire people based on actual relevant experience, not padded resumes and buzzwords.

Yeah they've made a lot of terrible designs, this is just one more on the pile. I'm wondering how much more that pile will grow once we get to see the full release.

[xarfaks]

Ursprungligen skrivet av mm.324:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

They're probably hiding the fact that itemisation is such a failure in this game. It was a bad design decision from the get-go, likely driven by some incompetent nincompoop who never even played Fallout but made a case about how "popular" "modern" games use random loot to "increase replayability" and "cut costs". At this point they're too afraid to question it because it will reveal incompetence, and also because "too late to change the system" (likely a load of bull as well, they just don't want to admit their mistakes and do extra work/crunch).

Developers, especially small ones with a niche market, should learn to listen to their fanbase/target audience and hire people based on actual relevant experience, not padded resumes and buzzwords.

Yeah they've made a lot of terrible designs, this is just one more on the pile. I'm wondering how much more that pile will grow once we get to see the full release.

Hire according to skill?
Set relevant criteria for potential employees?
Describe the actual job and product in the job description?

NONSENSE

We hire people according to cultural fit :D (to justify paying them as little as possible true Startup people work for free that is called sweat equity that gets deluded to nothing before a liquidity event.)
And we write stuff like "The X factor" as skill requirements......

What next will you people demand actual documentation?
And responsibility for marketing claims and legal repercussions for not delivering?
Or not writing EUA ( end user agreement) and other contracts that are at the same time binding for the user but not for the company? Do you expect companies to actually follow the laws of the countries they operate in?

That will kill innovation!!!!

Be thankful for all the free and innovative products we have given you over the last two decades! Worship the new tech gods!

But seriously have you ever spoken to an IT or tech company lately? Like in the past decade?
With a couple of rare exceptions sanity, skill and responsibility are very much theoretical concepts in this industry.
After all stocks always go up and most companies make their money of investments...

[Zaela Zhezzaia]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

Ursprungligen skrivet av mm.324:

I find it hilarious that nobody from Dark Crystal Games has responded in this thread, in spite of the fact that they state "Encased community is the most important for us - we are going to follow up those closely for your feedback on the game." at the end of every one of their announcements.

They're probably hiding the fact that itemisation is such a failure in this game. It was a bad design decision from the get-go, likely driven by some incompetent nincompoop who never even played Fallout but made a case about how "popular" "modern" games use random loot to "increase replayability" and "cut costs". At this point they're too afraid to question it because it will reveal incompetence, and also because "too late to change the system" (likely a load of bull as well, they just don't want to admit their mistakes and do extra work/crunch).

Developers, especially small ones with a niche market, should learn to listen to their fanbase/target audience and hire people based on actual relevant experience, not padded resumes and buzzwords.

Agree 100% with this. I really want to love this game. Yet when I find my self making a gun class. Only to run out of ammo and there no way to get more ammo. Makes it hard for me want to keep playing. When the accuracy for most attacks is so bad. When enemies keep feeling like they are getting strong. Yet I am not getting strong.

If they want replay value with loot. That what random battles are for. Where who knows what you get. Hell if they really wanted random loot. They should have gone with the Knight of the Old Republic style of loot. Where the loot was random. Yet it was not random enough to critically enough to kill your progression. As even the devs knew. That some weapons and armor need to drop from set enemies. Some spots will have an 100% chance of X item being there. That shops have a good amount of items to buy and a good amount of crafting to make things you are having a hard time to find/buy.

Sadly screwing up the loot system in an rpg. Will most likely kill this game. Shame as the story seems good but when I find my self unable to progress in the story as I am unable to kill enemies. Rather because they do to much damage from a lack of armor. I can not do enough damage from a lack of weapons/ammo.

I also do not want only two play styles. Magic or melee. ((Yes I know it sci-fi magic. Just can not think of the name off the top of my head. It still magic.))

[xarfaks]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

They're probably hiding the fact that itemisation is such a failure in this game. It was a bad design decision from the get-go, likely driven by some incompetent nincompoop who never even played Fallout but made a case about how "popular" "modern" games use random loot to "increase replayability" and "cut costs". At this point they're too afraid to question it because it will reveal incompetence, and also because "too late to change the system" (likely a load of bull as well, they just don't want to admit their mistakes and do extra work/crunch).

Developers, especially small ones with a niche market, should learn to listen to their fanbase/target audience and hire people based on actual relevant experience, not padded resumes and buzzwords.

Agree 100% with this. I really want to love this game. Yet when I find my self making a gun class. Only to run out of ammo and there no way to get more ammo. Makes it hard for me want to keep playing. When the accuracy for most attacks is so bad. When enemies keep feeling like they are getting strong. Yet I am not getting strong.

If they want replay value with loot. That what random battles are for. Where who knows what you get. Hell if they really wanted random loot. They should have gone with the Knight of the Old Republic style of loot. Where the loot was random. Yet it was not random enough to critically enough to kill your progression. As even the devs knew. That some weapons and armor need to drop from set enemies. Some spots will have an 100% chance of X item being there. That shops have a good amount of items to buy and a good amount of crafting to make things you are having a hard time to find/buy.

Sadly screwing up the loot system in an rpg. Will most likely kill this game. Shame as the story seems good but when I find my self unable to progress in the story as I am unable to kill enemies. Rather because they do to much damage from a lack of armor. I can not do enough damage from a lack of weapons/ammo.

I also do not want only two play styles. Magic or melee. ((Yes I know it sci-fi magic. Just can not think of the name off the top of my head. It still magic.))

Yea KOTOR was good.....
But such loot tables require a lot of time to implement. And actually pretty robust internal development tools.
Nowadays everybody either uses Unity or Unreal that is the downside of more accessible development. Like in webcode most just copypaste stuff and use of the shelf tools. Some even off the shelf assets.

I generally think the whole replayability and open-world thing, mostly just makes everything more generic.
Very few stories and game structures actually fit well with an open-world or "high" replayability gameplay.
I wish more developers would actually focus on delivering a finished story. VS just trying to check of semi random marketing checkboxes following some obscure trends.

[Zaela Zhezzaia]

Ursprungligen skrivet av xarfaks:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

Agree 100% with this. I really want to love this game. Yet when I find my self making a gun class. Only to run out of ammo and there no way to get more ammo. Makes it hard for me want to keep playing. When the accuracy for most attacks is so bad. When enemies keep feeling like they are getting strong. Yet I am not getting strong.

If they want replay value with loot. That what random battles are for. Where who knows what you get. Hell if they really wanted random loot. They should have gone with the Knight of the Old Republic style of loot. Where the loot was random. Yet it was not random enough to critically enough to kill your progression. As even the devs knew. That some weapons and armor need to drop from set enemies. Some spots will have an 100% chance of X item being there. That shops have a good amount of items to buy and a good amount of crafting to make things you are having a hard time to find/buy.

Sadly screwing up the loot system in an rpg. Will most likely kill this game. Shame as the story seems good but when I find my self unable to progress in the story as I am unable to kill enemies. Rather because they do to much damage from a lack of armor. I can not do enough damage from a lack of weapons/ammo.

I also do not want only two play styles. Magic or melee. ((Yes I know it sci-fi magic. Just can not think of the name off the top of my head. It still magic.))

Yea KOTOR was good.....
But such loot tables require a lot of time to implement. And actually pretty robust internal development tools.
Nowadays everybody either uses Unity or Unreal that is the downside of more accessible development. Like in webcode most just copypaste stuff and use of the shelf tools. Some even off the shelf assets.

I generally think the whole replayability and open-world thing, mostly just makes everything more generic.
Very few stories and game structures actually fit well with an open-world or "high" replayability gameplay.
I wish more developers would actually focus on delivering a finished story. VS just trying to check of semi random marketing checkboxes following some obscure trends.

This is all very true. Specially on the part of focusing on finish story. Cause then they can focus on making the game playable from beginning to end. With most play styles. Not expecting someone who's character having 20 points in every skill will get very far.

Though I would hope at less the 6 base fighting styles are able to play the game from start to finish. Hell I would not care if like Hand to Hand falls off mid way and you have to switch to melee.

Honestly I feel the best way to do Reply value is having a story change based on your actions. Having the world changes, final boss change. Massive chunk of the game locked off to you because you did some. Sadly this also requires robust internal development.

I do hope the game gets better. Cause it has good promise to it. Kinda why I not written it off. I seen worse games become good games.

[zhligw]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

Well I played many games and they still had working shops and loot. In your defense. They devs have made the game unplayable tell release.

Oh, you want it easy to just buy a real powerful weapon or find it in a loot box like grab bag and you're on your way to easy street and then the game is boring. Come on girl get tough this isn't prissy wizard of oz with Dorthy.

[Zaela Zhezzaia]

Ursprungligen skrivet av zhligw:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

Well I played many games and they still had working shops and loot. In your defense. They devs have made the game unplayable tell release.

Oh, you want it easy to just buy a real powerful weapon or find it in a loot box like grab bag and you're on your way to easy street and then the game is boring. Come on girl get tough this isn't prissy wizard of oz with Dorthy.

What RPG have you played where you can just walk in and buy gear above the level zone? Every rpg I played. Gear tents to be very balance in shops. Often times gear is locked behind levels or zones.

If you are finding shops caring op gear for your level. Then you are playing a pretty bad rpg.

[Blackdragon]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

What RPG have you played where you can just walk in and buy gear above the level zone? Every rpg I played. Gear tents to be very balance in shops. Often times gear is locked behind levels or zones.

If you are finding shops caring op gear for your level. Then you are playing a pretty bad rpg.

No, on the contrary - it's the BAD RPGs that usually have the random loot. Stuff like Diablo and its million clones, which are not even RPG proper but the so-called "Action RPGs". Item gating by level is the hallmark of cheap and unimaginative design. Classic, universally acclaimed CRPGs like Fallout 1-2, Baldur's Gate 1-2-TOB, Elder Scrolls (Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim), etc. etc. had realistic loot when enemies drop the items they are using, including armor/weapons.

Even in the best games with semi-random loot, like The Witcher 3, the randomisation and level gating only detracted from the game.

[Zaela Zhezzaia]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

What RPG have you played where you can just walk in and buy gear above the level zone? Every rpg I played. Gear tents to be very balance in shops. Often times gear is locked behind levels or zones.

If you are finding shops caring op gear for your level. Then you are playing a pretty bad rpg.

No, on the contrary - it's the BAD RPGs that usually have the random loot. Stuff like Diablo and its million clones, which are not even RPG proper but the so-called "Action RPGs". Item gating by level is the hallmark of cheap and unimaginative design. Classic, universally acclaimed CRPGs like Fallout 1-2, Baldur's Gate 1-2-TOB, Elder Scrolls (Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim), etc. etc. had realistic loot when enemies drop the items they are using, including armor/weapons.

Even in the best games with semi-random loot, like The Witcher 3, the randomisation and level gating only detracted from the game.

I think you have miss understood what I was saying. So let me explain that I like the CRPG of old where npc have dropped their weapons ammo and armor. This feels right. Yet you can still go buy weapons and armor from shops in Fallout 1 - 2. Yet not a single starting zones shop is going sell you a plasma gun.

I know in Fallout 1 - 2 there some really good gear you can get at the start of the game. If you know where these items are out. Fallout 2 you can get Enclave armor at level 1. All these CRPG games have super powerful loot that if you know what to do and where to go. You can gear your self out in super power gear.

Now what I am saying is this game is in so far development. I do not know if the devs can even make the game like Fallout 1 - 2 loot system. Where bad guys drop their gear. They like to have random ♥♥♥♥ on them. If the devs are going keep going with the train wreck of a loot system. Then we the players need something to give us better loot if we can not get them from loot.

Which is why I said if they are going go with random loot like they are. They should then do Knights of the old republic style. Which not only had random loot. They had shops and crafting to feel in the gaps of loot you get from randomly looting stuff.

[Blackdragon]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Vela Zhezzaia:

I think you have miss understood what I was saying. So let me explain that I like the CRPG of old where npc have dropped their weapons ammo and armor. This feels right. Yet you can still go buy weapons and armor from shops in Fallout 1 - 2. Yet not a single starting zones shop is going sell you a plasma gun.

I know in Fallout 1 - 2 there some really good gear you can get at the start of the game. If you know where these items are out. Fallout 2 you can get Enclave armor at level 1. All these CRPG games have super powerful loot that if you know what to do and where to go. You can gear your self out in super power gear.

Now what I am saying is this game is in so far development. I do not know if the devs can even make the game like Fallout 1 - 2 loot system. Where bad guys drop their gear. They like to have random ♥♥♥♥ on them. If the devs are going keep going with the train wreck of a loot system. Then we the players need something to give us better loot if we can not get them from loot.

Which is why I said if they are going go with random loot like they are. They should then do Knights of the old republic style. Which not only had random loot. They had shops and crafting to feel in the gaps of loot you get from randomly looting stuff.

Okay, I guess I have misread your post. In that case we are almost on the same page. I still prefer "realistic" loot (when if you kill an enemy, you get his weapon), but that doesn't mean high-end items should be easily available. On the contrary, they should be the crowning point of an entire endeavour.

So, for example, you could have high-reward enemies situated in remote locations, possibly aligned with major quests or sidequests (like exploration, assassination or bounty hunting). Reputation-based rewards are fine as well (like unique faction armor in Gothic), makes sense that if resources are scarce, they will be hoarded by the strongest powers and doled out to the most loyal members. It's also logical to have the best stores be located in either the biggest or the best defended cities, which could be difficult to reach due to geography, ingame politics etc. So yeah, having realistic loot does not at all mean it's easily reachable. E.g. you could even have an awesome item on display in a museum in a big city - but the security is so tight, getting it is an adventure in itself ("heist"), and if you do manage to steal it, you could become the enemy of the local government, also hunted by those who'd like to steal it from you (plot hook).

Point is, game should not be felt as railroading along a predefined "progression path", players should have a sense of freedom and agency, where choices matter and they can try to hit above their "expected level" to reward skill and knowledge. Rather than just trudging along the narrow road determined by the developers, like a carnival ride where you are reduced to a spectator role.

[B166ER]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

Ursprungligen skrivet av mm.324:

I find it hilarious that nobody from Dark Crystal Games has responded in this thread, in spite of the fact that they state "Encased community is the most important for us - we are going to follow up those closely for your feedback on the game." at the end of every one of their announcements.

They're probably hiding the fact that itemisation is such a failure in this game. It was a bad design decision from the get-go, likely driven by some incompetent nincompoop who never even played Fallout but made a case about how "popular" "modern" games use random loot to "increase replayability" and "cut costs". At this point they're too afraid to question it because it will reveal incompetence, and also because "too late to change the system" (likely a load of bull as well, they just don't want to admit their mistakes and do extra work/crunch).

Developers, especially small ones with a niche market, should learn to listen to their fanbase/target audience and hire people based on actual relevant experience, not padded resumes and buzzwords.

I follow this train-wreck just to see it burn upon release with their 3th or 4th attempt at "We will release on day X", something they've always failed thus far.

[12]

Wanted this game to be good but it's a garbage truck sim and not a fun one.

[Darx]

yeah loot and items are terrible in this game.

[Batailleuse]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blackdragon:

Skill-wise, you'll have to max TWO attack skills instead of one, which means you will hugely delay maxing vital non-combat skills like Criminal, Science, or Tech (and Piloting if you go Servoshell). Even with max skill points per level (25 with 10 Brain Silver Wing and Observant perk),

definitely not the max you can get.

White wing + genius = 16 brain at start = 26 points right from the beginning
you can even go for 5 all stats
after that pick renaissance man +1 all stats = 17 brains
and then pick the +1 to all lowest stats.

making you having 17 brains and 7 to all other stats.

which should give you what ... 32 ish+ skill points per level and pretty good at anything.

with that much skill per level you can definitely raise anything you might want, albeit it will require some roaming on map to get extra xp. but totally doable.

- with that much brains there is one skill you can use on shotgun to aoe enemies to sleep since it scales off brains you would never miss.

- Sleeping dart also have hit scaling off of brains.

with 7 psy and perception you can use the skill on sniper using psy stats.

i mean you would be flexible.

[Nergal]

Drops still are pretty bad, armor never drops which is super lame, and shops dont seem to regen much supplies. loving the game, but these things need work.