Combat

[gallaghan2000]

Played this off and on over the changes.

I don't know if I'm not doing something correctly from not keeping current, if it's that same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ set of people increasing the wtf factor, or I just don't see what has changed that I need to focus on for combat itself.

Yes, combat needed to be tuned after stealth was introduced and said stealth broke the game.

Whatever this is, is not it. For crying out loud, three normal rats should not have 30 hp and be dealing 9-10 damage before laceration effects.

Not really sure what happened to stimpacks beyond that they seem to have had 1/3 of their healing potential cut.

And with these frankly absurd distance modifiers my ranged weaponry can't hit ♥♥♥♥.

Oh, and overall accuracy seems to have been completely tied into increasing one's weapon skill, so there's literally no point in carrying a hand gun if you don't put skill points in it and you'd better put points in something.

The thing that pisses me off the most, though, is that I can't even throw a grenade without 30 base contraptions skill.

The role-playing aspect is good, but combat is still ♥♥♥♥.

Also, why the hell do RATS still have as much hp as me? honestly feels like they were pumped in strength just so that the barrel by itself won't kill them.

[Grifman]

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

Played this off and on over the changes.

Oh, and overall accuracy seems to have been completely tied into increasing one's weapon skill, so there's literally no point in carrying a hand gun if you don't put skill points in it and you'd better put points in something.

Golly, an RPG where specific weapon proficiency is tied to a specific weapon skill?! What will they think of next? Inconceivable!? :)

[Nasenbaerus]

Originally posted by Grifman:

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

Played this off and on over the changes.

Oh, and overall accuracy seems to have been completely tied into increasing one's weapon skill, so there's literally no point in carrying a hand gun if you don't put skill points in it and you'd better put points in something.

Golly, an RPG where specific weapon proficiency is tied to a specific weapon skill?! What will they think of next? Inconceivable!? :)

I didn't play patch 5 because I'm a bit tired of the game as a whole right now, but if I understand him correctly he has a point: shouldn't the attributes also contribute to accuracy? Even if you never shot a handgun before, there is a bit likelyhood you understand the principles behind it enough to hit your mark if you have a steady hand and eye-hand coordination. So, if accuracy is really completely tied to a skill so you have no chance to hit your mark on the ideal range of the weapon, it seems weird.

So don't know what's your point here. You should have clarified his findings (being helpful, you know) or keep silent. But discouraging someone for his feedback is an ahole move.

[Iluvcheezcake]

Only perception plays a role, and that equals precision. And yeah, starting rats and roaches are descendants of John Rambo

[Grifman]

Originally posted by Nasenbaerus:

Originally posted by Grifman:

Golly, an RPG where specific weapon proficiency is tied to a specific weapon skill?! What will they think of next? Inconceivable!? :)

I didn't play patch 5 because I'm a bit tired of the game as a whole right now, but if I understand him correctly he has a point: shouldn't the attributes also contribute to accuracy? Even if you never shot a handgun before, there is a bit likelyhood you understand the principles behind it enough to hit your mark if you have a steady hand and eye-hand coordination. So, if accuracy is really completely tied to a skill so you have no chance to hit your mark on the ideal range of the weapon, it seems weird.

So don't know what's your point here. You should have clarified his findings (being helpful, you know) or keep silent. But discouraging someone for his feedback is an ahole move.

As the prior post noted, perception does play a role, so the OP was mistaken about this. Regardless, my point was why was he complaining about having to put points into a weapon skill in order to effectively use a weapon? Isn't that how most RPG's work, especially those heavily based on stats, like the original Fallout (and Encased), and not games like Fallout 4 where the player's own skills have an impact? The comment just seemed really strange. And I only did some light jesting with him, I certainly didn't call him dumb or stupid.

[Nasenbaerus]

You are absolutely right: if you want to rely on a weapon skill you must upgrade it. But I would also expect to be able to at least use a weapon to some degree without investing points in it. But yeah, when perception is still the base attribute for ranged weapons, which makes sense, it's fine by me. I only didn't understand why you attacked him for mentioning, at least I read it this way (maybe I was mistaken). It was valid feedback even when mistaken and ... yeah could have been worded a bit more polite by the OP in the first place. ^^
I have right now Solasta and Biomutant in my queue and Encased community handling was such a bad experience the last weeks/months ... I will take a look at patch 5 at a later point myself. Or maybe I wait for the release. At least now it seems likely it really releases at some point, didn't feel like this the last weeks.

[gallaghan2000]

Originally posted by Grifman:

Originally posted by Nasenbaerus:

I didn't play patch 5 because I'm a bit tired of the game as a whole right now, but if I understand him correctly he has a point: shouldn't the attributes also contribute to accuracy? Even if you never shot a handgun before, there is a bit likelyhood you understand the principles behind it enough to hit your mark if you have a steady hand and eye-hand coordination. So, if accuracy is really completely tied to a skill so you have no chance to hit your mark on the ideal range of the weapon, it seems weird.

So don't know what's your point here. You should have clarified his findings (being helpful, you know) or keep silent. But discouraging someone for his feedback is an ahole move.

As the prior post noted, perception does play a role, so the OP was mistaken about this. Regardless, my point was why was he complaining about having to put points into a weapon skill in order to effectively use a weapon? Isn't that how most RPG's work, especially those heavily based on stats, like the original Fallout (and Encased), and not games like Fallout 4 where the player's own skills have an impact? The comment just seemed really strange. And I only did some light jesting with him, I certainly didn't call him dumb or stupid.

I'm primarily frustrated by what feels like a return to step 1, when I played in the first two content patches, where everything was absurdly powerful, even when you were facing things as a black wing operative.

anyways, yes, i understand that you have to raise a weapon skill in general to be able to use weapons accurately. For the longest time this did not seem to be the case and at 4-6 perception you were accurate enough at close range (4-5) that you were generally fine.

Moreover, in most RPGs you have a grace period where you can at least rely on decent to average stats to carry you against the first few battles.

This is definitely not the case anymore. Playing as a silver wing, so +20 to psionics followed by a +10 from 60 in speech and I had a 37% chance to hit the rats at point blank with psionics with the arbiter in my other hand adding 5 to precision (also, they made the arbiter ♥♥♥♥, don't bother getting it at this point). 4 base per. upped to 6 from airplane at the time (something that carried me through the game in all my previous runs).

When I switched to the arbiter, my to hit value was 0%.

I have never seen that. ever.

Moreover, the barrel that always previously killed them is no longer strong enough to do so. What pissed me off even more than that was that there was no special loot for offing the literal rat bastards.

Seriously, I just want to know what I'm missing for this stuff to be made this powerful relative to a starting character. The only thing I truly have in my favor is some 26 skill points a level which while completely absurd is no less absurd than not being able to throw a grenade because I haven't found the time to increase contraptions from an 8 to 30.

I just want to know if the fix is something stupid on my end, but it honestly feels like the range penalties were increased to an absurd degree. I'd have to play the versions side by side to really see it.

I also don't like that I can't see the percentage chance to hit barrels, among other things.

[Iluvcheezcake]

Difference in precision (which seems to be the main stat for accuracy on untrained weapons) between lets say 6 perception and 10 perception is huge.
I usually played the reneissance man (changed to person lol wokeism) build and had 6 perception and about 40ish something precision.
Rolled a minmax build with 10 per and precision is over 80 :o
AFAIK the precision is calculated by some base point (20ish i think) + perception x 3.
(In both cases i had the arbiter in offhand)

[r-cane]

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

When I switched to the arbiter, my to hit value was 0%.

I have never seen that. ever.

I think that point is valid. They juggled with the attribute and stat system quiet a while so that could still be subject to change, epecialy since Iron_Orca stated in another thread that they are thankfull for feedback on specific enemy difficulties. So I agree that there should be a basic chance to hit someone/something with a weapon even if you never held one before. It doesn't need to be very high, then again I kinda like the skill system for UnderRail and I think they give 70% base hit chance before skills and penalties. Which sounds like much, but when you think about it realy isn't since it's before penalties. I think I would be able to hit anything human sized in at least 70% of the time when it was point blank before me and wouldn't dodge. Of course that chance diminishes fast if the target is smaller, moves(like in a combat situation) or is further away. But it shouldn't be 0%. The only reason for a 0% chance is if something is completly behind cover that the weapon cant penetrate.

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

What pissed me off even more than that was that there was no special loot for offing the literal rat bastards.

That however is something I can completly disagree on. As stated numeral times before and in my review, loot needs to make sense. So as much as I want an enemy with superior equipment to have this lootable on his person if I win the fight, beating a couple of rats, no matter how tough they are, should give you as loot only a couple of teeth, some meat and a stinking rat fur, and even those only if you know how to skin them.
Now what you could do is have some stuff on a corpse of another adventurer that they killed and ate, but only if it makes sense, and quiet honestly, if he had better gear then you, then why did he end up dead while you are still alive? And saying "Only because he has better gear doesn't mean he knows how to use it." is only partially valid. Someone who cant shoot for ♥♥♥♥ wouldn't pay a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of money for a gun he basicly cant handle. Or how much equipment are you carrying around, and dont sell if you could, if your charackter wouldn't realy be good at using the stuff?

[gallaghan2000]

Originally posted by r-cane:

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

What pissed me off even more than that was that there was no special loot for offing the literal rat bastards.

That however is something I can completly disagree on. As stated numeral times before and in my review, loot needs to make sense. So as much as I want an enemy with superior equipment to have this lootable on his person if I win the fight, beating a couple of rats, no matter how tough they are, should give you as loot only a couple of teeth, some meat and a stinking rat fur, and even those only if you know how to skin them.

Eh, I get what you're saying and can somewhat agree now that I've calmed down a bit. Personally, I'm just frustrated that the effing rats are still this ridiculous. Hell, give them a decent XP output for the challenge they bring to the table and I'd not worry about the treasure as much (150 or so is not equal to how easily they can kill you). I'd still complain, mind you, because years of playing rpgs tells me that a normal rat should never under any circumstances reach the level of power they regularly have had in this game. ever.

[r-cane]

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

Originally posted by r-cane:

That however is something I can completly disagree on. As stated numeral times before and in my review, loot needs to make sense. So as much as I want an enemy with superior equipment to have this lootable on his person if I win the fight, beating a couple of rats, no matter how tough they are, should give you as loot only a couple of teeth, some meat and a stinking rat fur, and even those only if you know how to skin them.

Eh, I get what you're saying and can somewhat agree now that I've calmed down a bit. Personally, I'm just frustrated that the effing rats are still this ridiculous. Hell, give them a decent XP output for the challenge they bring to the table and I'd not worry about the treasure as much (150 or so is not equal to how easily they can kill you). I'd still complain, mind you, because years of playing rpgs tells me that a normal rat should never under any circumstances reach the level of power they regularly have had in this game. ever.

Unfortunatly I cant download the game to play it for the next month, so I cant comment on that. But you are not the only one complaining about rats and roaches, so there's probably something to it. Rat's can be pretty tough bastards, but for animals of their size. Anything that could kill something the size of a human shouldn't have a hard time killing a rat, at least if you manage to strike it on the torso and not just the tail. But that would be represented by a lowered to hit chance through dodging, not a ton of HP.

[Iluvcheezcake]

Rambo rats man, Rambo rats

[Moraven]

maybe scaling the rats/roaches with the players lvl would be better. sure, at the gas station the rats in the basement are optional, you dont have to trigger their attack, BUT for enemies in the starter zone (like the roaches at nashville) they are way too strong.

[Iluvcheezcake]

TBH i would suggest skipping level scaling, that ruins the pacing of proper RPGs and pretty much invalidates any kind of sensible progression - ie. coming back to a previous zone that wrecked you and wrecking them in return

[mm.324]

Originally posted by Iluvcheezcake:

TBH i would suggest skipping level scaling, that ruins the pacing of proper RPGs and pretty much invalidates any kind of sensible progression - ie. coming back to a previous zone that wrecked you and wrecking them in return

I agree.

[r-cane]

Originally posted by Iluvcheezcake:

TBH i would suggest skipping level scaling, that ruins the pacing of proper RPGs and pretty much invalidates any kind of sensible progression - ie. coming back to a previous zone that wrecked you and wrecking them in return

+1