Ideas and suggestions

[Stormtrooper]

Hi, RPG fans!

We're wondering which opponents, monsters or fights you remember the most from your adventures. We're interested in any experience: western CRPG, eastern JRPG and tabletop RPGs.

We'll listen to you carefully and maybe even take inspirations and ideas from some of your stories while developing our own enemies and combat encounters.

Crazy raiders? Intelligent plants? Cunning cultists?


Encased: A Sci-Fi Post-Apocalyptic RPG

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[Cadmus_Labs]

Originally posted by mm.324:

Originally posted by JDR13:

Being limited in how many skills or abilities you can have in one playthrough is not the same as being pushed into a role, and who says playing a role means you can't have multiple solutions for situations? By not allowing a jack-of-all-trades, they're actually increasing the choices for the player as well as adding to the replay value of the game.

Going back to the post that you were first replying to, by pushing players into "a solo tank or a charisma group leader" is limiting the player's choices and that's not what an RPG is supposed to be about. If I have to play a certain way, that the dev determines, then it's not really an RPG because the player is the one who is supposed to be in control. It also means that the devs didn't include enough possible solutions for given situations.
I know some people like "replayability" but I don't. I may replay a game a second time many years later, but not right after finishing it.

I'm not saying we will not address/balance things like Charisma but what you are saying is not 100% fair. RPG system is a SYSTEM and it has builds obviously. Charisma build is a build too - you get pluses and minuses. Same with any other attribute or skill tree. Your character has low Brains - well you receive less Skill points but you had extra stats points which you put somewhere else. The way you build your character are your choices, and your character will not be perfect in every direction, right?

[MeepdragonVII]

Originally posted by Cadmus_Labs:

Originally posted by mm.324:

Going back to the post that you were first replying to, by pushing players into "a solo tank or a charisma group leader" is limiting the player's choices and that's not what an RPG is supposed to be about. If I have to play a certain way, that the dev determines, then it's not really an RPG because the player is the one who is supposed to be in control. It also means that the devs didn't include enough possible solutions for given situations.
I know some people like "replayability" but I don't. I may replay a game a second time many years later, but not right after finishing it.

I'm not saying we will not address/balance things like Charisma but what you are saying is not 100% fair. RPG system is a SYSTEM and it has builds obviously. Charisma build is a build too - you get pluses and minuses. Same with any other attribute or skill tree. Your character has low Brains - well you receive less Skill points but you had extra stats points which you put somewhere else. The way you build your character are your choices, and your character will not be perfect in every direction, right?

For me the issue so far is that three of the characteristics seem to be far less impactful/useful than the other ones: Charisma, Luck & Psyche.
In most cases I felt I can easily ignore all three of them without any serious repercussions ingame understanding of course that social interactions won't be the character's strong suit then.

I don't see the same for the other 5 characteristics though - no matter if I want to play a fighter, silver tongued scoundrel or scientist, a certain amount of points in even those stats that are on the opposite end of that build's agenda seems important (Brains for combat oriented PC, Muscle/Body for scientist/social fellow...).
Basically leaving Luck or Psyche at 1 so far is an easy decision, but the same is not true for Brains, Perception, etc. - quite on the contrary.

The only reason I created a character now with Brains 1 for example was to find out about the new options this approach offers, but even there I miss my additional skill points/level, ability to use the terminals, ...
So this super low stat comes with a recognizable drawback, whereas Charisma 1 doesn't appear to be doing quite the same; all main NPC still are accessable (which of course somehow is to be expected and a good thing), the prices are the same at vendors, ...

To sum it up the "pluses and minuses" you refer to simply aren't as big/useful for certain characteristics at the moment and so I'd just like to ask once more to give those stats some additional love.

Reading that the item "address/balance things like Charisma" is (potentially) on your list anyway is quite reassuring.

Thanks for your efforts!

[Sir Dies Alot]

So I had another play through, I did notice when i boosted some of my stats either by using drugs or food it seemed to work on some things, but when I boosted my charisma by getting drunk and tried to access the expand my group to 3 that did not work.

Also when visiting vendors and such like, is it possible to use other NPC's to sell their items as well or just lumping it all on your main to buy and sell trying to remember what gear you need. Something like a next button as you switch from party member to the next.

Which brings me to encumbered player, yep his or her stats are lowered so I am thinking also you would get tired quickly become more hungry and thirsty too, or if you overload the character too much he would not be able to move. As I had my character loaded like a pack mule to the extent that he was carrying nearly 3 times his own body weight.

Not sure if it is a bug or what but when I went to free the oranges or stop them from escaping i tried to use the slide, the cursor can highlight it but when I clicked on the object the game froze, I could not click around the map or escape from the game back to the main menu. So i had to shut down the game via steam and reload that point where I last played.

[mm.324]

Originally posted by Cadmus_Labs:

Originally posted by mm.324:

Going back to the post that you were first replying to, by pushing players into "a solo tank or a charisma group leader" is limiting the player's choices and that's not what an RPG is supposed to be about. If I have to play a certain way, that the dev determines, then it's not really an RPG because the player is the one who is supposed to be in control. It also means that the devs didn't include enough possible solutions for given situations.
I know some people like "replayability" but I don't. I may replay a game a second time many years later, but not right after finishing it.

I'm not saying we will not address/balance things like Charisma but what you are saying is not 100% fair. RPG system is a SYSTEM and it has builds obviously. Charisma build is a build too - you get pluses and minuses. Same with any other attribute or skill tree. Your character has low Brains - well you receive less Skill points but you had extra stats points which you put somewhere else. The way you build your character are your choices, and your character will not be perfect in every direction, right?

What I'm trying to say is that there should be a path for every type of build. Build type shouldn't stop someone from being able to accomplish a task. Maybe I'm not being clear on what I mean so I'll use an example.

Let's say there's a guarded building that I want to get into. Here's all the different ways we should be able to do that.
> Tank / Intimidation build- Fight my way in or intimidate the guards into letting me in.
> Thief / Athletic build- Pick a locked back door / window or sneak through a vent or sewer system.
> Charismatic / Talker build- Talk the guards into letting me in.
> Low Intelligence / High Luck build- The guards guards see me and think I'm one of the cleaning crew who's goofing-off, so they push me inside an tell me to get back to work.
> Tech / High Intelligence build- Make a fake ID to trick the guards or hack into the security system to open up a back door.

My point is that there should be an option for every type of character-build to accomplish a task and the devs need to make sure that they give us those options. It's on us (the player) to find the one that works for our build. I know my example is a simple one but I hope that it shows what I'm trying to say.

[JDR13]

Seems to me that's exactly what they're doing. Although I think it's unrealistic to expect that every task is going to have that many different ways to solve it.

[mm.324]

Originally posted by JDR13:

Seems to me that's exactly what they're doing. Although I think it's unrealistic to expect that every task is going to have that many different ways to solve it.

From what @echard was saying it sounds like the devs are pushing players towards tank or charismatic leader builds. If they only have paths that are viable for two character types then it's not a true RPG imo.
Tbh I haven't played since they switched the beginning. When I tried it it was a buggy mess so I decided to stop playing for a while and "listen" to what other players had to say about it.

[gallaghan2000]

Originally posted by MeepdragonVII:

For me the issue so far is that three of the characteristics seem to be far less impactful/useful than the other ones: Charisma, Luck & Psyche.
In most cases I felt I can easily ignore all three of them without any serious repercussions ingame understanding of course that social interactions won't be the character's strong suit then.

I don't see the same for the other 5 characteristics though - no matter if I want to play a fighter, silver tongued scoundrel or scientist, a certain amount of points in even those stats that are on the opposite end of that build's agenda seems important (Brains for combat oriented PC, Muscle/Body for scientist/social fellow...).
Basically leaving Luck or Psyche at 1 so far is an easy decision, but the same is not true for Brains, Perception, etc. - quite on the contrary.

Charisma - From what I remember of early release, pre-content updates, is that a lot of what would be the Cha checks for conversations were flat Wing checks. There have been a couple as the story progressed, but so far, it either checks for a relatively low threshold that non-talkers can easily reach or the sub-skills of charm, intimidate, and/or conviction.

Frankly, it would take some good dedicated Cha-based dialogue to fix this and that would need to be dedicated work regardless. I'd rather have them finish the base game before going back to fine-tune what extras or bypasses Cha would get you.

Maxed Luck and Psyche, though, combined with Brains should honestly be the core of what you need to open up the best ending(s) in the game. Now, this stuff shouldn't be messed with until the base story and game is fully implemented, but I've said before that gambling should be folded into Criminal and I meant it. What should replace it is a luck-based skill called, say, 'Relic Tech' that can be used to interact with and semi-control the dome and it's environs, including allowing teleportation (best idea is that you expended relic dust upon using these powers/abilities/skills). Among other things, that whole white fog opening can be replaced with actual areas where between psionics and this skill (which would be quasi-psionic in nature), you actually change events like a little godling to get the result you want, including the chance to leave the Dome at a time either in the future or in the past enough that it can't impact the second game in the series they talk about making.

[JDR13]

Originally posted by mm.324:

Originally posted by JDR13:

Seems to me that's exactly what they're doing. Although I think it's unrealistic to expect that every task is going to have that many different ways to solve it.

From what @echard was saying it sounds like the devs are pushing players towards tank or charismatic leader builds. If they only have paths that are viable for two character types then it's not a true RPG imo.
Tbh I haven't played since they switched the beginning. When I tried it it was a buggy mess so I decided to stop playing for a while and "listen" to what other players had to say about it.

I wouldn't take what other players say for granted. There are too many people who give half-baked opinions after playing a game for 30 minutes. I seriously doubt that there will be only 2 viable characters considering they're providing 5 archetypes.

[gallaghan2000]

Originally posted by JDR13:

Originally posted by mm.324:

From what @echard was saying it sounds like the devs are pushing players towards tank or charismatic leader builds. If they only have paths that are viable for two character types then it's not a true RPG imo.
Tbh I haven't played since they switched the beginning. When I tried it it was a buggy mess so I decided to stop playing for a while and "listen" to what other players had to say about it.

I wouldn't take what other players say for granted. There are too many people who give half-baked opinions after playing a game for 30 minutes. I seriously doubt that there will be only 2 viable characters considering they're providing 5 archetypes.

Yes and No.

Latest Character: "Orange" Wing
Strength 5
Guts 4
Brains 10
Luck 2
Charisma 5
Perception 5
Deftness 11
Psyche 4


The talk of a push generally comes from certain requirements that were seen lately, that being a 5 cha requirement to pick up the skill to grab even one companion, 8 for two i believe, 10 for three, moreover the companions still have a spot on your reputation bar and can theoretically come to hate your guts due to poor choices just as easily with a 5 cha as a 10 cha.

However, let's talk about the archtypes themselves. From all accounts they've bitten off more than they can chew, IMO (especially if they want the game out of early access this year). There is a certain... flavor... each of the classes started with originally. I'm honestly not sure if it's still supposed to matter as after Nashville, though, as it seems like you're pretty much written as a wingless hobo with a gun at that point.

White, Blue, and Black were relatively straight-forward. White could have some hidden depth with good enough refinement attempts, but you don't really have the choice of being what the main stream would call a crackpot psionic guru at this point, much less the ability to hack and learn all the key secrets that Cronus is keeping.

Silver, the new nobility! Haven't played them much, my current silver is a literal moron that I decided on for irony reasons. From what little I remember they had a lot of little things to support this.

Orange, the slave class, they have to participate in any experiments they are told to and take part in manual labor if told to do so. And the Fines! Only, you play an Orange First Class and don't have to deal with any of that. Moreover, no one ever seems to pull rank on you.

[JDR13]

I don't really see a problem with any of the things you mention there. I suppose they could relax the charisma requirements a bit for companions though. I've also seen some people complaining about psionics not being powerful enough, but I haven't tried a psionic build yet myself. Is that what you mean by crackpot psionic guru?

[gallaghan2000]

Originally posted by JDR13:

I don't really see a problem with any of the things you mention there. I suppose they could relax the charisma requirements a bit for companions though. I've also seen some people complaining about psionics not being powerful enough, but I haven't tried a psionic build yet myself. Is that what you mean by crackpot psionic guru?

No. Story wise, the general world flavor before the Maelstrom is that psionics don't exist and are at best parlor tricks. If you pay attention while playing you see that 90% of what CRONUS knows is redacted information that they will not share even if it would save lives. Hell, that even happens at the beginning of the game when Kingsley sends you to Nashville.

Bit by bit, though, you can see quotes from White Wing scientists. A handful actually make the connection between 'Halo Eye' and the things going on, while 90% of the rest claim there is no connection between the same 'Halo Eye' and Psionics one subset the speaking scientist called 'mental space phenomenon.'

At this point, you are not allowed to play a White Wing character that has studied the theories of those 'crackpots' and come to some knowledge about the Dome itself that would be classified by CRONUS.

[gallaghan2000]

Might be a good idea to open up a temporary orange companion (at Concord) for high Cha/Silver characters so that they can leverage that ability. Pretty much as you go further on, you have to make progressively higher Cha checks to keep them from bolting. Might even be able to send them up with Louise just before going on your vision quest. That or drag them along somehow if you have a high enough Psyche (8-10).

[Peter Sidewinder]

Please remember about walk/run toggle key. I'd like to be able to walk like in real rpg.

[gallaghan2000]

Originally posted by ☢Sidewinder☢:

Please remember about walk/run toggle key. I'd like to be able to walk like in real rpg.

I don't. The more time I spend walking when it isn't necessary, is more time spent irl staring at a screen than I need to.

[JDR13]

Originally posted by gallaghan2000:

Originally posted by ☢Sidewinder☢:

Please remember about walk/run toggle key. I'd like to be able to walk like in real rpg.

I don't. The more time I spend walking when it isn't necessary, is more time spent irl staring at a screen than I need to.

That's why it's a "toggle" key. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. ;)