Why are speedrunners so toxic and jealous of each other?

[Crystal]

I notice the bullying behaviour of older runners who will join the stream of younger runners to incite quarrels with the audience watching the stream.

This subtle malicious behaviour, of older players trying to act as "gatekeepers" for the junior player who is streaming, while really just driving away audience and attacking potential subscribers to keep in check the junior.

The younger player is usually someone quite talented.

The older player will try to hijack or sabotage the stream by acting as "gatekeeper" for all the chats and interactions. On the surface, it looks as if it is gatekeeping, but in fact it is motivated by jealousy of the talent of the younger player.

My question is...

Why is the speedrunning community so jealous of each other? I feel the older, more established players are always hijacking the thread of younger players to create trouble, especially if they sense talent from the latter.

Where is this sense of insecurity coming from?

[Melodia]

Where have you seen this in OT streams? I sure haven't.

[Crystal]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Where have you seen this in OT streams? I sure haven't.

It is not for me to name and shame. But it only takes a clever person to review or playback stream to really see what is going on [the subtle behaviour].

I just want to express my disappointment at the treatment of younger players.

Coming from a non-OT background, I am used to seeing pro-players being more friendly and welcoming to newcomers.

Even Dark Souls community has generally a more chill atmosphere and mature playerbase who knows how to be competitive yet sporting at the same time.

It is ironic that git gud tryhard games like DS or DMC have community that is so chill.

It is the G-rated games that have toxic community, like Undertale or Fortnite.

I wish the OT community all the best.

This is a great game, really, a masterpiece JRPG.

But what a pity.

[SaN]

The funniest thing is that Octopath Traveler is not compatible with speedrunning. ^^

[Crystal]

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

The funniest thing is that Octopath Traveler is not compatible with speedrunning. ^^

The 10% allure and 3% steal might agree with you XD

Often, JRPGs are designed to make players sink hundreds of hours into getting achievements.

[marcv666]

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

The funniest thing is that Octopath Traveler is not compatible with speedrunning. ^^

Speedrun was born with Super Metroid. Why is Super Metroid such a good game to speedrun? Because it's kinda open world where you have to plan and optimize your route. People have done normal speedrun, reverse boss speedrun, 100% speed run, any % speedrun etc. Do you see a similarity with Octopath Traveler? It is open world too with countless possibility to optimize your route. It also have many category like a normal run, Galdera run, solo run with all 8 characters. And just like Super Metroid a randomizer tool has been developped to randomize the world.

Octopath Traveler is actually the very best and most compatible JRPG at speedrunning. It has already been featured many times in GDQ with many players having an interest to speedrun this game so you're very wrong about that...

[Crystal]

Originally posted by SaN:

The funniest thing is that Octopath Traveler is not compatible with speedrunning. ^^

Originally posted by marcv666:

[
Octopath Traveler is actually the very best and most compatible JRPG at speedrunning. It has already been featured many times in GDQ with many players having an interest to speedrun this game so you're very wrong about that...

Just to add my 5 cents to this topic.

I do enjoy watching OT speedrun, the same way I enjoy watching blitz chess.

But I have to admit OT is not originally meant for speedrun.

There are many ppl doing Dark Souls speedrun, but does that mean Dark Souls is meant for speedrun?

If we compare OT to chess, the classical chess mode where ppl play for hours per match is the golden standard. The FIDE World Chess Champion refers to the classical mode.

Blitz chess is an alternate mode of playing.

Blitz employs effective but less than ideal tactics, economical moves and very risky maneuvers, due to time pressure.

Can you see the similarities with OT?

While the 3% steal and 10% allure may not be the most ideal move, they are the most economical.

The highly risky move of using low level team to wander into Lvl45 areas to open purple chests, while one unlucky encounter will mean instant death, and restart from save.

It doesn't sound like OT is meant to be played as speedrun.

It may be designed for 200hrs of JRPG exploration in mind. Just saying.

But OT speedrun can be enjoyed as a post-game activity.

Is it compatible with speedrun? Maybe.

Is it originally meant for speedrun? No.

[Melodia]

How many games are 'meant' for speedrunning?

[Crystal]

Originally posted by Melodia:

How many games are 'meant' for speedrunning?

Good question.

Platforming games like Mario, Super Meat Boy and Duck Tales are perfect for speedruns.

The goal of such games is just to get from A to Z point as fast as possible.

Combat tends to be minimal and simplistic. No emphasis on grinding.

Map layout is also linear, like a race track.

Almost non-existent story and characterization.

I think platformers are meant for speedruns.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Platforming games like Mario, Super Meat Boy and Duck Tales are perfect for speedruns.

The goal of such games is just to get from A to Z point as fast as possible.

Combat tends to be minimal and simplistic. No emphasis on grinding.

Map layout is also linear, like a race track.

Almost non-existent story and characterization.

I think platformers are meant for speedruns.

They are no more 'meant' for it than a game like OT.

[marcv666]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Blitz employs effective but less than ideal tactics, economical moves and very risky maneuvers, due to time pressure.

On the contrary in blitz you avoid complicated and risky lines because you face time pressure, unless it's part of your preparation. What's more important in blitz is keeping the initiative, that's all. You actually don't play the best move but rather just try to play solid without too much risk. But even that it all depend on your playstyle. Some players are more aggressive and plays like Tal or Kasparov, others like me play more like Karpov and Magnus where you prefer positional play...

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

While the 3% steal and 10% allure may not be the most ideal move, they are the most economical.

I don't quite understand your point here, low percent rate is garbage across the board. You don't want to rely on low chance for your speedrun and that's why people prefer purchase.

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

The highly risky move of using low level team to wander into Lvl45 areas to open purple chests, while one unlucky encounter will mean instant death, and restart from save.

There's actually very low risk when you're good at speedrunning, this requires skills when maneuvering in some of those zone, but you actually need bad luck to get an encounter in most zone if you move perfectly. When playing a normal playthrough I usually start grinding in Maw of the Ice Dragon (level 45 dungeon) at level 18 and I never die. All I need is Percipience support and everything is safe in there.

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

It may be designed for 200hrs of JRPG exploration in mind. Just saying.

It's design for all kinds of players, those who doesn't know much about the game and enjoy taking it slow it's perfect for them as well as those who likes to break the game and challenge themselves it's also very good for them.

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Is it originally meant for speedrun? No.

Actually yes they are meant to be speedrun. Look at Bravely Default 2. Already people are starting to figure out how to break the early game. And this is actually great game design. If you're new to the game you'll have some challenge but finding overpowered stuff is actually quite fun to learn. For Octopath Traveler I could list you a lot of things that proves the game design was meant to be exploited. It is clear the developers implement ways to abuse the mechanics of the game to progress fast. There's just no way the developers didn't see it coming. Same with Bravely Default 2 if you've started playing the game.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by marcv666:

I don't quite understand your point here, low percent rate is garbage across the board. You don't want to rely on low chance for your speedrun and that's why people prefer purchase.

If you're talking about optimized speedrunning with a timer to get on a leaderboard? You very much need to do those low rates. And you can't avoid the Therion chapter 4 steal no matter what you do.

[Mr Fantastic]

Getting to the point you're a speedrunner in a game is pretty hardcore, but it's even more hardcore to waste your life dramatizing their videos and making discussions about it.

[marcv666]

Originally posted by Melodia:

If you're talking about optimized speedrunning with a timer to get on a leaderboard? You very much need to do those low rates. And you can't avoid the Therion chapter 4 steal no matter what you do.

By the leaderbord you mean like the world record here in (3:28:59)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS1oEmnE-OM&t=11668s&ab_channel=Z3R01337
you still have 55% chance to get it, 5 chances and if you would fail all 5 times it only cost 1000$ to restore reputation...

[marcv666]

and if you meant the solo run, then yes your right about that but you can't say the game isn't meant for speed running when 80-90% of the categories the people do aren't based on luck.

Anyway those people saying the game isn't meant for speed running in the end it is the players who decided if the game is or not and you actually have to be blind not seeing the entertainment of those speedrun in Octopath which most people do find entertainment in them.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by marcv666:

By the leaderbord you mean like the world record here in (3:28:59)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS1oEmnE-OM&t=11668s&ab_channel=Z3R01337
you still have 55% chance to get it, 5 chances and if you would fail all 5 times it only cost 1000$ to restore reputation...

That's one run. There's 19 categories on the leaderboard for the game
Of those, that's only one of two that will have that 55% steal. The other being All Side Stories.
All Main Stories it's an 8% steal.
Therion Single Story, All Rogues and All Males it's 3%.

(The others don't do Therion 4)

And most people who run the game do single story categories, not Galdera runs.