Really don't like the purple chest mechanic in this game, nor do i like the locked main character

[Katie]

I like Octopath Traveler a lot, but if you didn't pick Therion as your main character, the game basically tells you that you should bring Therion in your party all the time to open the purple chests or waste time backtracking to acquire them. This is really, really annoying.

It's bad enough that one character is locked until you finish the game (and becomes stupidly overleveled as a result), but if you didn't pick Therion as that main, locked character, you may as well play the game as if Therion is also locked to your main party, leaving just two slots to keep the other six travelers leveled. This is really, really annoying. And I'd argue Cyrus's auto-analyze is so strong compared to manually using Analyze that you really feel it when he's not there either.

I think Cyrus and Therion's unique character traits are so essential that if you didn't pick either of these characters as your main character, you basically selected the poor quality of life mode of the game. Therion is the most essential, though, especially since his Path action is almost strictly better than Tressa's. No traveler should be this essential.

Some could argue that the purple chests don't contain anything super essential, but in my experience, the chests contain items I haven't seen in shops routinely. So my guess is that if you're looking to get all the accessories and some nice weapons or whatever, you are basically highly incentivized to open these chests. It would be one thing if they were just consumables or money, but they are not – it's all been unique items I haven't found elsewhere.

This one mechanic really undermines an otherwise pretty good game.

[lobo]

ya they fixed the purple chest thing in octo 2. one youtube video grilled game for purple chest mechanic. Therion and Tressa are both good starters to get lots of money. you can collect 2k or more from a lot of bosses.

[Miketopus]

You can also start with a main character that's near Therion and/or Cyrus and work your way around. I picked Primrose my first time playing, and ran into the same situation as you.

I found having Therion around in that one annoying, until I understood how he works in parties. Now he's one of my favorite characters.

[Katie]

Originally posted by Miketopus:

You can also start with a main character that's near Therion and/or Cyrus and work your way around. I picked Primrose my first time playing, and ran into the same situation as you.

I found having Therion around in that one annoying, until I understood how he works in parties. Now he's one of my favorite characters.

That doesn't address the core problem. The forced inclusion of your main character in the party until the end of Chapter 4 means that if you didn't choose Therion, you need to take him along for every chapter quest to access the purple chests. Consequently, you're left with only two slots to level up the remaining six characters, which is quite limiting.

If you chose Therion as your main character, someone you would naturally include in every chapter quest, you then have three slots to rotate the other seven characters, making it much easier to keep everyone leveled.

Selecting a character like Ophelia as the main character is suboptimal because her Guide ability isn't needed often, making her a better candidate for rotation. While her cleric class is valuable, other travelers can fulfill similar roles. Therion (and to a lesser extent, Cyrus) are irreplaceable, making them the most optimal main character choices.

This is poor game design, conflicting with the game's goal of offering freedom, customization, and non-linearity. The purple chest mechanic directly contradicts these principles by forcing you to include Therion constantly.

[Miketopus]

I guess I see your point, but I didn't see keeping Therion in my party as that big a hindrance, even when I grinded up two fully separate groups to level 70.

Trust me, I have some other deep complaints about this game, but Therion's necessity for purple chests isn't one of them now that I understand how party mechanics work. You would need him (Or the secondary Thief, I guess) in your party for every boss fight anyway if you wanted to steal everything good, so where's the additional harm?

[Katie]

Originally posted by Miketopus:

I guess I see your point, but I didn't see keeping Therion in my party as that big a hindrance, even when I grinded up two fully separate groups to level 70.

Trust me, I have some other deep complaints about this game, but Therion's necessity for purple chests isn't one of them now that I understand how party mechanics work. You would need him (Or the secondary Thief, I guess) in your party for every boss fight anyway if you wanted to steal everything good, so where's the additional harm?

No, I'm not going to trust you because you're factually in the wrong here.

The problem has nothing to do with his character sprite or the Thief class or his story or his stat spread or anything like that. Every other character can use a sub-job to make up for not having a specific traveler in your party ----- except for Therion, and to a lesser extent, Cyrus.

Ophelia and Primrose's Summon ability - non-essential.
Tressa's Leaf Collection when changing areas - non-essential
Oberick's defensive option - non-essential
Alfyn's Concoct - non-essential
H'annit's Beast Lore - non-essential

Also, this problem isn't an issue at level 70. It's an issue going through the game form Chapter 1 through Chapter 4, which is around 50-60 hours of gameplay. The fact that you said that demonstrates you're not listening or understanding the issue.

Even someone made a video about it, completely independent of me. I'm not the only person who sees this as a major design flaw with the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ipgM8Fwso

[Miketopus]

Okay. You're turning a bit insulting in these replies, so I'm done trying to offer another point of view. Have fun hating the game, I guess. Cheers!

[Katie]

Originally posted by Miketopus:

Okay. You're turning a bit insulting in these replies, so I'm done trying to offer another point of view. Have fun hating the game, I guess. Cheers!

Offering another point of view is fine, but ignoring what the other person is saying and bringing up points that don't relate to the topic is actually what I would call in bad faith. You get what you give.

From my point of view, I thought you were actually borderline trolling. You didn't acknowledge the point I was making at all, which in my view, really isn't a conversation.

[Melodia]

While I'm not a fan of the purple chest mechanic, in my many playthroughs of this game where Therion was even an allowed character I never found him so essential as to be gimping my party otherwise. My original playthrough I pretty much only used him for his chapters. The majority of stuff before late game dungeons isn't too essential.

As for Cyrus, his talent is nice but it hardly is a game changer. I would put Tressa's money making skills over Cyrus's observe any day. And Primrose/Ophilia's summons can be quite powerful if you know how to use them, Alfyn's concoct even more so (many consider it the second most broken thing in the game behind Hired Help). H'aanit....yeah hers sucks, no getting around that.


Edit: And ugh, that video well, Guy seems to completely ignore all the other characters' talents seeming to think Therion is the only one with a 'second ability', so I wouldn't take anything they say seriously.

[Katie]

Originally posted by Melodia:

While I'm not a fan of the purple chest mechanic, in my many playthroughs of this game where Therion was even an allowed character I never found him so essential as to be gimping my party otherwise. My original playthrough I pretty much only used him for his chapters. The majority of stuff before late game dungeons isn't too essential.

It's essential in that you're just leaving accessories and armor in the dungeons rather than picking it up. Some of the stuff is actually useful when you find it, giving you upgrades. And if you ignore it to keep the travelers evenly leveled, then you need to backtrack for it later. Very annoying.

None of the other characters have secondary talents that are this important. If you didn't use Ophelia's Summon ability for 50 hours of gameplay, it's not really a big deal. But if you miss the dozens of Purple Chests, that's a lot of upgrades (and leaves, which is amounts to ultimately) that you're leaving on the table. It's not equitable. All the travelers should be similar in value as a starting character, but they are not. I'd rank them 1. Therion 2. Cyrus and 3. The rest.

Originally posted by Melodia:

As for Cyrus, his talent is nice but it hardly is a game changer. I would put Tressa's money making skills over Cyrus's observe any day. And Primrose/Ophilia's summons can be quite powerful if you know how to use them, Alfyn's concoct even more so (many consider it the second most broken thing in the game behind Hired Help). H'aanit....yeah hers sucks, no getting around that.

It is much more beneficial than Summon is, or finding 300 leaves when changing an area. Having auto-analyze on 3 different enemies is equivalent to 3 BP or 3 turns without him. This is really powerful. It's like getting 3 turns for free where you were going to use Analyze anyway.

Yes, in the long-term, it doesn't amount to anything. But I would argue that's true for the other 6 travelers from level 1 to the end of the game. At least Cyrus has some really valuable usage on and off throughout the game, saving you a lot of turns in battles. It is more useful than Beast Lore or Summon, that's for sure. And so, if your character is going to be locked to the part until the end of the Chapter 4, I'd want it to be something that is actually useful for the duration of the entire game, which is Therion or Cyrus so that I can have more freedom to rotate 3 party members instead of just 2.

Originally posted by Melodia:

Edit: And ugh, that video well, Guy seems to completely ignore all the other characters' talents seeming to think Therion is the only one with a 'second ability', so I wouldn't take anything they say seriously.

Very true, but this error does not actually negate the original point they made since they are disconnected ideas. This is a fallacy of composition.

In fact, it's kind of telling how non-essential Summon, Concoct, Beast Lore, etc. are for the first 60-hours of the game compared to the Purple Chests. Regardless, my point did not come from the video - I saw it many days after actually through recommendations.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Katie:

It's essential in that you're just leaving accessories and armor in the dungeons rather than picking it up. Some of the stuff is actually useful when you find it, giving you upgrades.
And if you ignore it to keep the travelers evenly leveled, then you need to backtrack for it later. Very annoying.

Again, they aren't as big a deal as you are making it out to be. Let's look at every one from danger level 16-25 (i.e. chapter 2):
-Hasty Helm: Decent, but unless you really want that speed there's better options.
-Snipe Saber: Pretty good sword at this point, but you can buy one almost as powerful in Flamsegrace (chapter 1 town) if you get extra info, and other similar ones from path actions.
-Tough Nut: Just a nut. A small one at that.
-Falcon Garb: You can literally buy this from S'awarki (chapter 1 town) with extra info. And stuff like Elemental Robe you can buy normally from Stoneguard and Goldshore are better overall.
-Lightning Amulet: Niche use accessory that you're likely to forget about anyway
-6000 Leaves: Tressa can make that in her sleep
-Hasty Helm: See above
-Psychic Staff: Pretty bad compared to many other options, including one you can just purchase with Tressa (albeit for some good money) in Goldshore that has over 3x the Eatk power.
-Clarity Stone: Another niche use accessory.
-Dark Amulet: Ditto
-Spiked Vest: Again, better stuff you can just buy in shops
-Soul Hatchet: Not great on Apothacary who wants the PAtk and only useful on an EAtk focused Hunter who wants a better option. I.E. somewhat niche.
-Argent Axe: This one is good but again you can just buy something almost as good.

So yeah, overall opening it helps, sure, but nothing is a game changer and some of it is either niche or you're never even going to use it.

Originally posted by Katie:

None of the other characters have secondary talents that are this important.

I mean, in general it's REALLY HARD to have even near perfect balance when making video games.

Originally posted by Katie:

But if you miss the dozens of Purple Chests, that's a lot of upgrades (and leaves, which is amounts to ultimately) that you're leaving on the table. It's not equitable. All the travelers should be similar in value as a starting character, but they are not. I'd rank them 1. Therion 2. Cyrus and 3. The rest.

You're free to have your opinions but the talent is hardly the only thing that matters. Hell the general consensus is that Tressa is the best overall character.

Originally posted by Katie:

or finding 300 leaves when changing an area.

It's not even close to that low once you start getting into later areas. It can get up to a few thousand in high level areas.

Originally posted by Katie:

Having auto-analyze on 3 different enemies is equivalent to 3 BP or 3 turns without him. This is really powerful. It's like getting 3 turns for free where you were going to use Analyze anyway.

Again, it's nice to have but hardly changes things immensely. You're talking about random battles for the most part which....well you're going to be fighting them multiple times most likely anyway. And most enemies have one or two things they 'tend' to be weak to (birds are weak to spear, trees are weak to fire, etc), combined with the rigid order weaknesses are in, and, well, it's rare that the one extra weakness reveal is going to make or break anything.

Originally posted by Katie:

In fact, it's kind of telling how non-essential Summon, Concoct, Beast Lore, etc. are for the first 60-hours of the game compared to the Purple Chests. Regardless, my point did not come from the video - I saw it many days after actually through recommendations.

You keep talking about 'essential' but that's just it....being better doesn't mean they are nessesary. You can beat the game quite easily without a single purple chest. Strategy will trump the few extra stat points from the gear you'll get.

[Katie]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Again, they aren't as big a deal as you are making it out to be.

I want to stop you here. You may not value the contents very highly, but your entering fallacy territory here. Regardless of whatever subjective value you think the chests are worth, it is an objective fact that it is much greater than what the other 6 characters offer as a locked main character slot.

There's also the Treasure Hunter achievement as well to consider, which would require tedious back-tracking if you did not just take Therion with you to begin with. He makes it easier to get this achievement as you naturally play through the game.

Originally posted by Melodia:

I mean, in general it's REALLY HARD to have even near perfect balance when making video games.

You're changing the topic. Nobody said anything about perfect balance. I'm just pointing out that 2 traveler's secondary talents are vastly superior to have in the locked main character slot than the other 6. We can argue which of the talents of the other 6 travelers is better, but it would be a moot point as they are all relatively in line with each other - they are all non-essential. They can help you at any time you have them in your party, but you're not really punished for not taking them along on any given chapter either.

Therion and Cyrus are different. You are punished by not getting the purple chest. In the best case scenario, you need to back-track later for it. The worst case scenario is that you forget about it and miss it.

Cyrus offers a great quality of life by saving many turns whenever you enter new areas. I don't think I value Ophelia's Summon ability or H'annit's Beast Lore anywhere near as much as this.

Originally posted by Melodia:

It's not even close to that low once you start getting into later areas. It can get up to a few thousand in high level areas.

Two things here.

1) The leaves are not missable;

2) Like you said, it's more optimal at the end of the game, which has less impact on the locked starting character situation. The purple chest thing affects your quality of life from the very beginning of the game. If you're going to have to lock a main character in for 50 hours of gameplay, it is optimal to lock in Therion. Locking in Tressa doesn't really help you. If you're focused on leveling up all the travelers, then you're going to partially benefit from her talent anyway, and you can always add her in later on in the game to make money - you don't need to lock her in as a main character. This is why Therion is more essential than Tressa.

Originally posted by Melodia:

You keep talking about 'essential' but that's just it....being better doesn't mean they are nessesary.

That's not an accurate take. You can subjectively place lower value on the purple chests, but that doesn't say anything about the value compared to the other characters. It's still much higher.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Katie:

There's also the Treasure Hunter achievement as well to consider, which would require tedious back-tracking if you did not just take Therion with you to begin with. He makes it easier to get this achievement as you naturally play through the game.

Well first off, the game wasn't designed with that achievement in mind. Achievements were added to the Steam version 11 months after it originally came out.

Secondly you can always just run around with the spurning ribbon at the end if you really want that one. Yes it's backtracking but unless you're following a guide the whole way through you're unlikely to get it naturally anway/

[Katie]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by Katie:

There's also the Treasure Hunter achievement as well to consider, which would require tedious back-tracking if you did not just take Therion with you to begin with. He makes it easier to get this achievement as you naturally play through the game.

Well first off, the game wasn't designed with that achievement in mind. Achievements were added to the Steam version 11 months after it originally came out.

Secondly you can always just run around with the spurning ribbon at the end if you really want that one. Yes it's backtracking but unless you're following a guide the whole way through you're unlikely to get it naturally anway/

Even if you were working off a guide to get all the chests, you would still need Therion in your party for every chapter to follow the guide, which proves my point about the achievement and the problem I'm highlighting.

[moisole]

Originally posted by Katie:

Ophelia and Primrose's Summon ability - non-essential.
Tressa's Leaf Collection when changing areas - non-essential
Oberick's defensive option - non-essential
Alfyn's Concoct - non-essential
H'annit's Beast Lore - non-essential

Therion's purple chests - non-essential
Cyrus' study foe - non-essential

All these are to give you some benefit or another. They are all equal. You cannot call two of them essential and the dismiss the other six, because that only speaks of your choice, your style of play. It's not bad design that the game is not custom made to fit your style.

[Katie]

Originally posted by moisole:

Originally posted by Katie:

Ophelia and Primrose's Summon ability - non-essential.
Tressa's Leaf Collection when changing areas - non-essential
Oberick's defensive option - non-essential
Alfyn's Concoct - non-essential
H'annit's Beast Lore - non-essential

Therion's purple chests - non-essential
Cyrus' study foe - non-essential

All these are to give you some benefit or another. They are all equal. You cannot call two of them essential and the dismiss the other six, because that only speaks of your choice, your style of play. It's not bad design that the game is not custom made to fit your style.

Fine. They are non-essential and the other 6 "don't need to use them for the entire game for anything" then. Happy?

PS: I hope you got all the achievements without backtracking with Therion!