The Cyrus Dilemma

[Crystal]

So I've gotten the 4 advanced jobs and finished all Chp 4s.

I am left with Cyrus in a rather awkward position. My question: Do you make him into a Sorcerer? Or do you make him into a Runelord / Starseer?

Cyrus has the highest elemental atk since he has been devouring nuts on a regular basis. Plus I have the best gear for him. But the Sorcerer kit makes his Scholar job redundant.

Is it worth making someone else the Sorcerer to increase the versatility of team, at the expense of losing damage potential?

What do you make your Cyrus do? I am curious.

[Melodia]

"kit"

[Sakhari]

Cyrus ends up being one of the worst candidates for the Sorcerer job later in the game - one, because of the redundant skillset. Two, because he can't stack element-boosting weapons (which can give spells of the stacked element a 60% damage bonus). Three, because of his relatively low speed (in many cases, a Sorcerer strongly benefits from being one of the first characters to act in a fight). And four, because pretty much everyone eventually has access to a high Elem. Attack stat (high enough, at least, to get the job done).

Honestly, once I have the Sorcerer class leveled up on someone else, I usually wind up benching Cyrus entirely for most of the late-game.

[Crystal]

Originally posted by Melodia:

"kit"

Ok, "gig."

Originally posted by Sakhari:

Honestly, once I have the Sorcerer class leveled up on someone else, I usually wind up benching Cyrus entirely for most of the late-game.

So your advice is to dump him for someone younger and hotter?

[SaN]

If you have spent you magical nuts on him you can play him as Runelord especially if you dont have Tressa in your main team.

Or you can play him as support, he is good as Starseer and as Cleric if you need.

As support with Runes he can make 30k+ damage per hit, +50% if you equip second serving(Hunter) and another +25% if you equip Patience(Hunter) wich is a very good support skill for supports.

Starseer have decent magical damage, the elements that Cyrus dont have and is useful for some moves like giving 100% crits chance at the Warmaster.

But if you dont have already Ophilia, Cyrus is great as Cleric.

With supports is excellent to switch jobs often. Against bosses if you dont have Haanit Cyrus will be good as Hunter for example.

But remember Cyrus is better as damage dealer than as support so if you dont have Tressa making him the Runelord is the best move you can do.

During game best subclass for Cyrus is by far Merchant, then its Runelord.

But this is for damage builds. If you play him support starting Cleric is the best, Dancer is good and then you have some options, Cleric again or Starseer.

Sorcerer is indeed better on someone else. Sorcerer is more a support job than a damage dealer job. Its a very good job, for farming, for breaking and for reduce magical armor thats why is more a support job.

For farming you need speed and Cyrus is not good at that. Primrose and Therion are the best options.

When I play most of the time my Sorcerer will be Therion against normal foes and Ophilia against bosses.

[Sakhari]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

So your advice is to dump him for someone younger and hotter?

At least as far as the Sorcerer job is concerned. As noted above, you can drop him into another role without losing much if you really want to have him around but for the tasks that a Sorcerer is expected to do, in the late-game, he doesn't have a whole lot to offer in the areas that make the biggest difference.

[Crystal]

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

Or you can play him as support, he is good as Starseer and as Cleric if you need.

He ate all my nuts, I want a refund.

Personally I think Cyrus does not excel in support role as well as Orphilia.

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

But remember Cyrus is better as damage dealer than as support so if you dont have Tressa making him the Runelord is the best move you can do.

That's the thing - I've seen videos of pro players with Sorcerer Cyrus.

Because Tressa is better as Runelord.

Runelord Cyrus will just be spamming Balogar DS.

Starseer Cyrus will just be spamming Shooting Stars.

So again, it puts him in awkward position.

Originally posted by Sakhari:

As noted above, you can drop him into another role without losing much if you really want to have him around but for the tasks that a Sorcerer is expected to do, in the late-game, he doesn't have a whole lot to offer in the areas that make the biggest difference.

But he ate all my nuts

[SaN]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

He ate all my nuts, I want a refund.

xD

NP, this is not a waste. Cyrus is the best Magical Nuts eater anyway. With a Rune on him he will make very big damage and you will be able to reach very high Matk with 1 or 2 acessories slots free.

With Tressa as Runelord and Ophilia as Support, if I refer to my Tier List, your best option for Cyrus is to play him as the secondary Support(he will fill any needed jobs and be very good at it even if Ophilia will be better at Sorcerer he will be nice at sorcerer too) and Therion will be your Warmaster.

But if you have already spent you Patk Nuts and Crits Nuts and someone this guy should be your Warmaster and if you dont have spent any Nuts on Ophilia, she is the character to remove from the team for you to play Cyrus as Cleric.

[Crystal]

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

NP, this is not a waste. Cyrus is the best Magical Nuts eater anyway. With a Rune on him he will make very big damage and you will be able to reach very high Matk with 1 or 2 acessories slots free.

Cyrus ends up as cleric :) Therion is my sorcerer.

Yes, just finished the superboss fight. Took me about an hour, but no death. My boys are between lvl 60-65. Cyrus is a good cleric. I used double clerics for Team A (phase 1 boss), and a sorcerer Therion.

But I regret not making Cyrus the Runelord. On hindsight, he can kill boss with Balogar Blade. The fight would have been much shorter.

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

But if you have already spent you Patk Nuts and Crits Nuts and someone this guy should be your Warmaster and if you dont have spent any Nuts on Ophilia, she is the character to remove from the team for you to play Cyrus as Cleric.

This guy is the Unbending Blade :D

He only has 1 job, which is to spam Winnehilde Battle Cry every turn.

Orphillia is the only person to hit 999 m.atk and 999 m.def.

Cyrus and Therion BOTH have 999 m.atk, but much lower m.def.

So it seems m.def is more difficult to obtain than m.atk.

[Crystal]

Here's something interesting. Famitsu did an Octopath survey in 2018 and found Cyrus to be the most popular character:

https://www.siliconera.com/here-are-octopath-travelers-famitsu-survey-results/

Cyrus is ranked no.1 in both Japan and US in terms of popularity, with Olberic and Primrose's story being top rated.

Sorcerer Cyrus is also the most picked advanced sub-job.

Huh?

Wtf?

Ohhh... how has the meta changed...

[SaN]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Yes, just finished the superboss fight. Took me about an hour, but no death. My boys are between lvl 60-65. Cyrus is a good cleric. I used double clerics for Team A (phase 1 boss), and a sorcerer Therion.

Nice job. :)

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

But I regret not making Cyrus the Runelord

Who was your Runelord?

I think Ophilia is the second strongest char in the game, she have followers that are one of the strongest thing in the game, huge mana pool, very good stats. She have only one big weakness, her terrible speed, but this can be fixed except if your damage dealers are too fast for her. Thats why good damage dealers are slow characters.

Popularity is interesting for game designing but popularity and reality is not the same thing.
By experience most of the time popularity of something means this thing is grossly overestimated.

I know games where the by far most popular hero is by far the worst character of the game.
For example, Seiken Densestu 3 most popular hero is Hawk and he is by far the worst character of the game.

To make the real Tier List for a game like Octopath is to answer this questions.

Who is the character when we add him to the team who is the only one able to make the team the strongest possible?
Then who is second one when we add him to the team who is the only one except the first one to be able to make the team the strongest possible?
Etc...

Answers of this questions are:
-1 Alfyn
-2 Ophilia
-3 Tressa
-4 Therion
-5 Cyrus
-6 Olberic
-7 Haanit
-8 Primrose

That means Alfyn is the best char, Primrose is the worst char etc...

But that dont means Primrose is bad and that dont means Ophilia is a better Warmaster than Haanit.

Thats only means who contribute the most to make the team stronger.

[Sakhari]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Ohhh... how has the meta changed...

To be fair, that article was written less than two months after the game released. At that point, most people still had no idea how some of the passive abilities with vague descriptions worked, the availability of element-bonus stacking, etc. and the game is easy enough to complete that following the meta isn't 'that' important. Cyrus is perfectly functional as a Sorcerer and for most people who were probably using him for a large chunk of the game, it's a natural choice to move him into that role.

And as far as the first character pick, I actually agree with the survey crowd that him or Therion 'are' good first choices - though in my case, I usually start with Ophelia and Olberic first now just to get to their post-game rewards as quickly as possible (though it most likely doesn't make much of a difference in a standard playthrough).

[Crystal]

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

Who was your Runelord?

Tressa. I used her to cheese the hell out of phase 2 Galdera.

Not ashamed to say that I cheese the fight using Dohter's Charity :D

It's my first try, and Iucky win.

I google best method to win before I try secret boss.

Yeah, you can say that's wrong way to play, bla bla, whatever.

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

I think Ophilia is the second strongest char in the game, she have followers that are one of the strongest thing in the game, huge mana pool, very good stats

Mana pool and m.def are not easy to obtain, not as easy as m.atk.

Which is why I think it's an accidental design.

They accidentally made Orphillia good.

It's unintentional but whatever.

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

Thats why good damage dealers are slow characters.

Are you sure?

...Shouldn't they be faster than the enemy?

I view slowness as a downside rather than a plus.

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

Who is the character when we add him to the team who is the only one able to make the team the strongest possible?

This question can be subjective, according to scenario.

Eg: adding Runelord Tressa will make team strongest for Balogar secret boss.

But this doesn't mean she is strongest class, it just means Tressa is needed for very specific boss, and specific enemies.

Eg: adding Warmaster Olberic is best for the phase 2 Galdera fight.

This doesn't mean he is strongest guy (but yeah he is strongest guy), it just means he is suited to do the job for that scenario.

Originally posted by SaN playing Hades:

Thats only means who contribute the most to make the team stronger.

Well, I have seen Japanese pro-players who use Sorcerer Cyrus to great success.

Some even use him to speedrun very successfully.

So in the end, it's a matter of player skill...

If the player is good, he can make any character the strongest?

Originally posted by Sakhari:

To be fair, that article was written less than two months after the game released. At that point, most people still had no idea how some of the passive abilities with vague descriptions worked, the availability of element-bonus stacking, etc. and the game is easy enough to complete that following the meta isn't 'that' important.

Yes, you're right. Survey was done when game was too new.

Nowadays, it's rare to find a Sorcerer Cyrus....

I also think it's an accidental design flaw.

I can't help feeling Sorcerer class is originally meant for Cyrus.

Originally posted by Sakhari:

And as far as the first character pick, I actually agree with the survey crowd that him or Therion 'are' good first choices - though in my case, I usually start with Ophelia and Olberic first now just to get to their post-game rewards as quickly as possible (though it most likely doesn't make much of a difference in a standard playthrough).

Do ppl still pick Therion as starter or has that also changed?

It will be interesting to re-do the survey now...

Orphelia and Olberic have the best chp 4 reward... which is so unbalanced.

Game dev has clear favoritism I see :D

[Sakhari]

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Well, I have seen Japanese pro-players who use Sorcerer Cyrus to great success.

Some even use him to speedrun very successfully.

So in the end, it's a matter of player skill...

If the player is good, he can make any character the strongest?

At the end of the day, it's a turn-based RPG where performance is largely reliant on stats and equipment. Other characters have statistical benefits and better equipment options that no amount of skill will erase (and presumably, you'd be using the same amount of skill to play any character you choose as a Sorcerer).

If you 'really' want to use Cyrus in that role though, then go for it. Again, for the most part, it's a fairly easy game once you have the basic mechanics down and find some decent gear and those benefits that other characters have aren't necessary to complete any portion of it. He'll manage just fine as a Sorcerer if that's what you want in your party.

Do ppl still pick Therion as starter or has that also changed?

I don't have any real data to work with but based on forum chatter and my own preferences, I think he's still a popular pick. He has a useful starting skillset and being able to steal some decent items and lockpick chests from the word 'go' is a nice bonus. If you're planning on doing some early gear-hunting by exploring, he's a no-brainer as one of the first characters to grab.

[Melodia]

Really Sorcerer Cyrus makes sense on the surface. He's got the highest EAtk, and he's thematically a mage. Hell you can even add to the fact that you get the job in his chapter 4 area. Add onto that that a lot of players are likely to have given him magic nuts, it's not surprising at all that he won the poll here, wouldn't be even if it were a year later.

Originally posted by crystalphoenix:

Some even use him to speedrun very successfully.

Not really the best point. Speedruns that use sorcerer get sorcerer VERY early -- I want to say for a Cyrus Galdera route after a mere 7 chapters (Cyrus, Tressa and Therion's first chapters and all four of Ophilia's) though this might be a bit different more recently.
And at the end once it's time to hit the gauntlet, Cyrus becomes a Runelord and it's Tressa who's the sorc.

But there's speedruns done that are just as viable using Ophilia, and for runs that only do the main story, Primrose.

And you have to consider that for a speedrun it's not JUST the in battle factor. Cyrus has scrutinize, which is essential to getting a number of items.

[Crystal]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Not really the best point. Speedruns that use sorcerer get sorcerer VERY early -- I want to say for a Cyrus Galdera route after a mere 7 chapters (Cyrus, Tressa and Therion's first chapters and all four of Ophilia's) though this might be a bit different more recently.
And at the end once it's time to hit the gauntlet, Cyrus becomes a Runelord and it's Tressa who's the sorc.

I can understand sorcerer Orphi or Prim, but I never get sorcerer Tressa.

I mean, why? She doesn't have high e.atk compared to Orphi, Prim or Cyrus.

She's also kinda slow in turn order.

Originally posted by Sakhari:

At the end of the day, it's a turn-based RPG where performance is largely reliant on stats and equipment. Other characters have statistical benefits and better equipment options that no amount of skill will erase (and presumably, you'd be using the same amount of skill to play any character you choose as a Sorcerer).

I'm curious...

Just HOW big a difference these stats / equipment make though? I mean, are we talking about life-changing numbers here...? Will Galdera take 2 turns to die instead of 69 turns?