The SturmTiger in SD2?

[CheeseMerchant]

how big is the chance we will see this unit at release if not later in SD2? the SturmTiger was first used during the warsaw uprising which still is in the timeframe of Operation Bagration. after that it primarly saw action on the western front during the battle of the bulge and the defense of German homeland.

I would imagine it,s armor stats being very compareable to that of the King tiger. it had the same superstructure armor thickness as the King tiger,s upperplate thickness also angled in a similair fashion . it,s HE power would be atleast as good as the churchill AVRE but with far more range(SturmTiger had 5,650 m maximum firing range while AVRE only 91 meters.Yes the AVRE in SD44 is much better then it was in reality) it,s reload would be somewhere between 1-3 minutes depending on which source you use. it,s accuracy would be horrible ofcourse.

if it is going to be added i hope it will be balanced as historically as possible. make it a slow, inaccurate and long reloading unit but well armored which can be used in certain situations very well but at a high price.

what do you guys think.?

[Phosphor 1]

Sounds awesome to me!

[Protoss|]

I guess we might see it in a DLC n ot in the base game though as they didnt really got used in Bagaration. The more unit variaty the merrier :)

[runequester]

There were only something like 12 ever built.

If they start accounting for every piece of clapped together junk with a production run in the dozens, we'll drown in it.

And once you include anything like that, every player is going to want 5 of them, meaning realism is shot to pieces in favor of fantasy crap. There's already World of Tanks for the fantasy nerds.

Besides, they are not going to have a Polish underground armyand no developer is going to put the Warsaw uprising in a game.


Conclusion:
Focus on kit that actually saw service during the main battles of Bagration and was fielded in reasonable numbers.

[Maschinengewehr]

Originally posted by runequester:

There were only something like 12 ever built.

If they start accounting for every piece of clapped together junk with a production run in the dozens, we'll drown in it.

And once you include anything like that, every player is going to want 5 of them, meaning realism is shot to pieces in favor of fantasy crap. There's already World of Tanks for the fantasy nerds.

Besides, they are not going to have a Polish underground armyand no developer is going to put the Warsaw uprising in a game.


Conclusion:
Focus on kit that actually saw service during the main battles of Bagration and was fielded in reasonable numbers.

+1

[CheeseMerchant]

Originally posted by runequester:

There were only something like 12 ever built.

If they start accounting for every piece of clapped together junk with a production run in the dozens, we'll drown in it.

And once you include anything like that, every player is going to want 5 of them, meaning realism is shot to pieces in favor of fantasy crap. There's already World of Tanks for the fantasy nerds.

Besides, they are not going to have a Polish underground armyand no developer is going to put the Warsaw uprising in a game.


Conclusion:
Focus on kit that actually saw service during the main battles of Bagration and was fielded in reasonable numbers.

Steel division 2 doesn,t limit itself to bagration only. that is the first mistake you made.

the sturmtiger actually saw service. it wasn,t some obscure protototype that was never used. and it had a very specific function and usage. unlike many other vehicles which saw a limited production run. so just because of your own personal Bias towards the vehicle the sturmtiger should not be in the game?i wonder if you you also had problems with the Jumbo in SD44 as well, which also saw a very limited production run and was available in Normandy in SD44 while it never was available historically. but i guess you can let that 1 slide because muh Allies right? were was your world of tanks rhetoric then?

why would every player want 5 of them? this is the most ridiculous argumentation i have heard in a while. oh a couple of idiots want 15 king tigers in 1 deck. so lets just not put the vehicle in the game at all. you know what? lets delete every special unit out of the game because we can't have idiots or trolls ask for 5 of them in every deck. stronk logic right there.

Like protoszocker already said it would be the best if the sturmy gets added later in the game,s life cycle in some sort of DLC or free content. when divisions get added who had more of a secondary role, were behind the frontline or from other theatres. Just like SD44,s DLC,s. but unlike SD44, SD2 can cover every theater it wants because it does not get limited by the game,s name.

also what makes you think the warsaw uprising won,t be covered in the future of SD2? Eugen is focussing alot on the partisan aspects of Bagration so making a polish Warsaw uprising partisan battlegroup is only a stonetrow away. they don,t even need to add a campaign for it. just trow it in like the french resistance deck in SD44. if this gets done. what problem could you possible have if the division which had the sturmtiger historically gets added as a counter? or would that still be to much fantasy world of tanks?

Conclusion: you don,t have a real argument other then it should not be in the game because you say so. totally ignoring the liberties Eugen has already taken with other vehicles in the past. and also ignoring the fact that SD2,s scope is not only limited to bagration. also saying a vehicle which was historically in the area and could have been used against the russians a fantasy is laughable . when that problem can simply be resolved by adding the polish partisan battlegroup which gives totall legitimacy for the vehicle being in the game. or are poles a fantasy as well?:)

[InfamousGuava]

Originally posted by Weaponized Autism:

Originally posted by runequester:

There were only something like 12 ever built.

If they start accounting for every piece of clapped together junk with a production run in the dozens, we'll drown in it.

And once you include anything like that, every player is going to want 5 of them, meaning realism is shot to pieces in favor of fantasy crap. There's already World of Tanks for the fantasy nerds.

Besides, they are not going to have a Polish underground armyand no developer is going to put the Warsaw uprising in a game.


Conclusion:
Focus on kit that actually saw service during the main battles of Bagration and was fielded in reasonable numbers.

Steel division 2 doesn,t limit itself to bagration only. that is the first mistake you made.

the sturmtiger actually saw service. it wasn,t some obscure protototype that was never used. and it had a very specific function and usage. unlike many other vehicles which saw a limited production run. so just because of your own personal Bias towards the vehicle the sturmtiger should not be in the game?i wonder if you you also had problems with the Jumbo in SD44 as well, which also saw a very limited production run and was available in Normandy in SD44 while it never was available historically. but i guess you can let that 1 slide because muh Allies right? were was your world of tanks rhetoric then?

why would every player want 5 of them? this is the most ridiculous argumentation i have heard in a while. oh a couple of idiots want 15 king tigers in 1 deck. so lets just not put the vehicle in the game at all. you know what? lets delete every special unit out of the game because we can't have idiots or trolls ask for 5 of them in every deck. stronk logic right there.

Like protoszocker already said it would be the best if the sturmy gets added later in the game,s life cycle in some sort of DLC or free content. when divisions get added who had more of a secondary role, were behind the frontline or from other theatres. Just like SD44,s DLC,s. but unlike SD44, SD2 can cover every theater it wants because it does not get limited by the game,s name.

also what makes you think the warsaw uprising won,t be covered in the future of SD2? Eugen is focussing alot on the partisan aspects of Bagration so making a polish Warsaw uprising partisan battlegroup is only a stonetrow away. they don,t even need to add a campaign for it. just trow it in like the french resistance deck in SD44. if this gets done. what problem could you possible have if the division which had the sturmtiger historically gets added as a counter? or would that still be to much fantasy world of tanks?

Conclusion: you don,t have a real argument other then it should not be in the game because you say so. totally ignoring the liberties Eugen has already taken with other vehicles in the past. and also ignoring the fact that SD2,s scope is not only limited to bagration. also saying a vehicle which was historically in the area and could have been used against the russians a fantasy is laughable . when that problem can simply be resolved by adding the polish partisan battlegroup which gives totall legitimacy for the vehicle being in the game. or are poles a fantasy as well?:)

+1

[tyke]

Not only Jumbo but the Sherman with 76mm was quite rare in Normandy. iirc in the initial invasion a few were with infantry divisions, then later around early August a few were given to armoured divisions, but something like only a bit over 100 fought in Normandy, which is about half as many as Tigers in Normandy? But 76 fits in with gameplay balance and fun so it works, though they could've given some slighlt buffs to Sherman 75 and made it cheaper and more available while King Tiger doesn't work in fun gameplay as it's often too powerful for Allied weapons to deal with and makes the gameplay tedious.

For me this is issue of what it results in the matches actually being and what the meta becomes. If Sturmtiger was in the game I wouldn't want it more than 1 per card, and only 1 division having it (if we even make decks like that anymore). Even then you're going to see them so regularly.

If King Tiger had to be in SD44 then it should've been just 1 card of 1 King Tiger available to 21st Panzer. Maybe 2 King Tigers in 1 division, or 1 King Tiger in 1 division and 1 King tiger in another. At very most 2 King Tigers in 21st and 1 King Tiger in Lehr. Preferably just 1 King Tiger in 1 Division in the whole game then it is a fun Black Swan.
I really enjoyed the beginning of SD44 Beta where iirc 2 of the 4 divisions in the Beta were SS 12th Panzer Division and 3rd Armored and we had tank battles with Panthers and a few Tigers against lots of Shermans. Sure, it wasn't proportionally realistic tank engagement with all those Sherman 76 and Sherman Jumbos, or even it being the U.S fighting German tanks, but it was really fun gameplay and immersive. When the other divisions come into game and start regulalry seeing King Tigers not only immersion breaking but ruined fun and balance.

This is my concern about other units generally in SD2 of that we're going to end up seeing tons of heavies like IS2 and not enough T34 and Panther and Pz4 when IS2 were quite rare compared to how common T3485 was. I can't remember numbers but many times the amount of T34 saw combat in Bagration over IS2. Or even rather just many times the amount deployed while some regiments of IS2 basically didn't even get to the front, like one regiment lost virtually all of their IS2s on a march where about 20 left broke down or stuck in landscape and only 2 or 3 got to the frontline while the hundreds of T3485 in the Corps mostly made it.

Like a Tank Corps had hundreds of tank mostly T3485 and you'd have many times the amount of T34 as SU76, SU85, ISU122, ISU152, IS2 put together, but if it's like SD44 we're probably going to see more of them together than just the number of T34s on the battlefield.

Can talk about price, but probably going to be issue of availability, which is a shame because it is neat to be able to use in combat a company of 5 IS2s. If it's price you have to make cheaper units like T3485 really cheap for their effectiveness to the point more expensive units are very specific for their circumstances. Availability also a matter of scale of the game. If SD2 significantly larger scale than SD44 then can have huge availability of stuff like T34, or even infinite, while keeping stuff like IS2 to like max 5 in a match.

I wouldn't be bothered if SD2 didn't even have like Tigers and IS2s because you'd still be having fun and immersive battles of Pz4s and T3485s and SU76s and Panthers. The first thing should be gameplay and really fun battles and I had the most fun on SD44 Beta with 3rd Armoured vs 12th Panzer.
That's my problem is we're probably going to be seeing a fraction of the amount of T34 and Panther we should see proportionally other Soviet and Axis weapons and seeing and silly amounts of heavies, let alone Sturmtiger. Even 1 Sturmtiger in 1 Division just turns into every other match a Sturmtiger.

[CheeseMerchant]

Originally posted by ZULU:

Not only Jumbo but the Sherman with 76mm was quite rare in Normandy. iirc in the initial invasion a few were with infantry divisions, then later around early August a few were given to armoured divisions, but something like only a bit over 100 fought in Normandy, which is about half as many as Tigers in Normandy? But 76 fits in with gameplay balance and fun so it works, though they could've given some slighlt buffs to Sherman 75 and made it cheaper and more available while King Tiger doesn't work in fun gameplay as it's often too powerful for Allied weapons to deal with and makes the gameplay tedious.

For me this is issue of what it results in the matches actually being and what the meta becomes. If Sturmtiger was in the game I wouldn't want it more than 1 per card, and only 1 division having it (if we even make decks like that anymore). Even then you're going to see them so regularly.

If King Tiger had to be in SD44 then it should've been just 1 card of 1 King Tiger available to 21st Panzer. Maybe 2 King Tigers in 1 division, or 1 King Tiger in 1 division and 1 King tiger in another. At very most 2 King Tigers in 21st and 1 King Tiger in Lehr. Preferably just 1 King Tiger in 1 Division in the whole game then it is a fun Black Swan.
I really enjoyed the beginning of SD44 Beta where iirc 2 of the 4 divisions in the Beta were SS 12th Panzer Division and 3rd Armored and we had tank battles with Panthers and a few Tigers against lots of Shermans. Sure, it wasn't proportionally realistic tank engagement with all those Sherman 76 and Sherman Jumbos, or even it being the U.S fighting German tanks, but it was really fun gameplay and immersive. When the other divisions come into game and start regulalry seeing King Tigers not only immersion breaking but ruined fun and balance.

This is my concern about other units generally in SD2 of that we're going to end up seeing tons of heavies like IS2 and not enough T34 and Panther and Pz4 when IS2 were quite rare compared to how common T3485 was. I can't remember numbers but many times the amount of T34 saw combat in Bagration over IS2. Or even rather just many times the amount deployed while some regiments of IS2 basically didn't even get to the front, like one regiment lost virtually all of their IS2s on a march where about 20 left broke down or stuck in landscape and only 2 or 3 got to the frontline while the hundreds of T3485 in the Corps mostly made it.

Like a Tank Corps had hundreds of tank mostly T3485 and you'd have many times the amount of T34 as SU76, SU85, ISU122, ISU152, IS2 put together, but if it's like SD44 we're probably going to see more of them together than just the number of T34s on the battlefield.

Can talk about price, but probably going to be issue of availability, which is a shame because it is neat to be able to use in combat a company of 5 IS2s. If it's price you have to make cheaper units like T3485 really cheap for their effectiveness to the point more expensive units are very specific for their circumstances. Availability also a matter of scale of the game. If SD2 significantly larger scale than SD44 then can have huge availability of stuff like T34, or even infinite, while keeping stuff like IS2 to like max 5 in a match.

I wouldn't be bothered if SD2 didn't even have like Tigers and IS2s because you'd still be having fun and immersive battles of Pz4s and T3485s and SU76s and Panthers. The first thing should be gameplay and really fun battles and I had the most fun on SD44 Beta with 3rd Armoured vs 12th Panzer.
That's my problem is we're probably going to be seeing a fraction of the amount of T34 and Panther we should see proportionally other Soviet and Axis weapons and seeing and silly amounts of heavies, let alone Sturmtiger. Even 1 Sturmtiger in 1 Division just turns into every other match a Sturmtiger.

Balance and gameplay goes above realism i agree. but i think special units like the king tiger,the jumbo etc give more flavour to the game and give every division a unique feel. as long as those vehicles are not to historically inaccurate. and with that i mean if it historically the vehicle got introduced only 1 month after the events of the game, in case of the jumbo. then i think it can be added.

The game would still be fun without tigers,panthers,is-2,s etc i believe that as well. the thing that i am looking forward to the most in SD2 are the hungarian light and medium vehicles. together with alot of russian light vehicles. but things like the IS-2 or the King tiger are just vehicles who in general everyone likes to see or play around with in a game. the amount of king tigers in Steel division was just right, it gave Panzer Lehr the Option of going full late game powerhouse by calling them in buit this could only be done if the allies allowed it to happen by not pressuring panzer lehr constantly. and taking more thenm 2 king tigers in Panzer lehr for example was stupid anyway because it would take your availability away from somewhere else.

There should be 1 sturmtiger available per card with only 1 deck being able to have them.

[Protoss|]

Cutting vehicles just for realism and limiting the amount of ways to play the game, like heavy tank pushes would be bad. Also sure there Were few HTs and alot more MTs but when used they mostly got used in groups, so giving you the option to make such a group as a game play choice is neither balancing ruining as hts were killable in sd44 nor too unrealistic, as battles don't show the whole front but rather small battles in it. It's not a downscale of the war but a zoom in on one field. But yeah sturmtiger isn't a go to tank for release and not a must have. There are vehicles of much greater importance like all the different p4 and t34 models that hopefully are in the game.

[Maschinengewehr]

Unless Eugen just decides to start making huge urban maps out of nowhere, then it's pretty safe to say that Warsaw and the Warsaw Uprising will most definitely NOT be in the game. And by extension, unless Eugen has just dramatically opened up the scope from Bagration, there probably WON'T be an anachronistic Sturmtiger in the release version.

[CheeseMerchant]

Originally posted by Protosszocker:

Cutting vehicles just for realism and limiting the amount of ways to play the game, like heavy tank pushes would be bad. Also sure there Were few HTs and alot more MTs but when used they mostly got used in groups, so giving you the option to make such a group as a game play choice is neither balancing ruining as hts were killable in sd44 nor too unrealistic, as battles don't show the whole front but rather small battles in it. It's not a downscale of the war but a zoom in on one field. But yeah sturmtiger isn't a go to tank for release and not a must have. There are vehicles of much greater importance like all the different p4 and t34 models that hopefully are in the game.

+1

i definitly think as well that different panzer 4 and t-34 models have a priority above things like the sturmtiger. Eugen should first focus on all the vehicles and divisions that were historically there in the first place. after that they could focus on Divisions and equipment that in theory could have taken part in the operation because they were in the area. Like the sturmtiger battalion stationed near Warsaw. or as another example the Romanian divisions who were stationed in Ukraine during Bagration.

[tyke]

Originally posted by Weaponized Autism:

Balance and gameplay goes above realism i agree. but i think special units like the king tiger,the jumbo etc give more flavour to the game and give every division a unique feel. as long as those vehicles are not to historically inaccurate. and with that i mean if it historically the vehicle got introduced only 1 month after the events of the game, in case of the jumbo. then i think it can be added.

The game would still be fun without tigers,panthers,is-2,s etc i believe that as well. the thing that i am looking forward to the most in SD2 are the hungarian light and medium vehicles. together with alot of russian light vehicles. but things like the IS-2 or the King tiger are just vehicles who in general everyone likes to see or play around with in a game. the amount of king tigers in Steel division was just right, it gave Panzer Lehr the Option of going full late game powerhouse by calling them in buit this could only be done if the allies allowed it to happen by not pressuring panzer lehr constantly. and taking more thenm 2 king tigers in Panzer lehr for example was stupid anyway because it would take your availability away from somewhere else.

There should be 1 sturmtiger available per card with only 1 deck being able to have them.

Not just balance and gameplay but immersion too. KT doesn't just suck in SD1 just because it often ruins tank fights but also because it's immersion breaking.

Having 2 out of 10 divisions possess KT means in 2v2 then 1 in 5 chance a side is going to be deploying KTs.
It doesn't matter that a Division has access to 100 tanks but only 3 KTs. It means you're probably going to see the 3 KTs - just from each player with that Division.
In a 10v10 it means about half of the tanks on Axis side are KTs. You take snapshots of a ~10km length of frontline of Normandy and time after time within that space you have around 10 KTs and it's one of the most common tanks.

If KT was in game it should have been 1 King Tiger in 1 Division. And then we still would have regularly seen KTs in game, especially in team games.
There was about 5 King Tigers in all of Normandy? And did they even see combat? And a 10v10 you could often see about 15 King Tigers in combat together ravaging hordes of Shermans?

And we get this stuff about "hur why is SD44 dead??" How about that if you look at Wargame the most popular mode is 10v10. It doesn't matter how scathing many people are about 10v10, the reality is that if you want a successful game with an active population give them a decent 10v10.
How about how most people must have felt going and checking out Eugen's new game and they go in their beloved 10v10 and they're facing screens of King Tigers (particularly how that is going to go down today where there are a lot of people in fantasy world who are very emotional and upset about confronting the superiority of German weapons and they find that they can't kill KTs with their Stuarts).
How did many of those people feel checking out a new game set in their beloved WW2 and playing their beloved allies and having to fight tons of Panthers even with a realistic balance of power, let alone hordes of of Tigers with a semi-realistic balance of power, let alone KTs. You can't do that and have a successful WW2 RTT.

10v10 on SD44 release was an absolute massacre for the Allies with any competent players on Axis. My friend and I playing Lehr were getting about 100:1 KD ratios as Germans. You couldn't fit the Tiger or King Tiger kills on the kill screen, each tank you had to scroll down a bit to get the full list, and we had tons of Tigers and King Tigers available.


Even 1 KT in 1 Division was going to mean regularly seeing KTs in a conflict where was virtually none and going to damage game experience for some of the player base.

The Tiger1 should have been like the KT; It should have been 2 or 3 Tiger1s in 2 or 3 divisions and even that would be in practice you get floods of Tiger1s.
Panthers, I duno. Perhaps they could've been a bit cheaper but a lot less available, similarly could do that with SD2. Panther's a reality to deal with. Couldn't have SD2 without Panther as it was second most common tank in 1944, on the frontline in tank engagements really it's THE German tank. In SD44 we should have seen a lot more Panthers from standpoint of in proportion to other German tanks, and in SD2 tank fights should be mostly Panthers against hordes of T34.

[CheeseMerchant]

Originally posted by ZULU:

Originally posted by Weaponized Autism:

Balance and gameplay goes above realism i agree. but i think special units like the king tiger,the jumbo etc give more flavour to the game and give every division a unique feel. as long as those vehicles are not to historically inaccurate. and with that i mean if it historically the vehicle got introduced only 1 month after the events of the game, in case of the jumbo. then i think it can be added.

The game would still be fun without tigers,panthers,is-2,s etc i believe that as well. the thing that i am looking forward to the most in SD2 are the hungarian light and medium vehicles. together with alot of russian light vehicles. but things like the IS-2 or the King tiger are just vehicles who in general everyone likes to see or play around with in a game. the amount of king tigers in Steel division was just right, it gave Panzer Lehr the Option of going full late game powerhouse by calling them in buit this could only be done if the allies allowed it to happen by not pressuring panzer lehr constantly. and taking more thenm 2 king tigers in Panzer lehr for example was stupid anyway because it would take your availability away from somewhere else.

There should be 1 sturmtiger available per card with only 1 deck being able to have them.

Not just balance and gameplay but immersion too. KT doesn't just suck in SD1 just because it often ruins tank fights but also because it's immersion breaking.

Having 2 out of 10 divisions possess KT means in 2v2 then 1 in 5 chance a side is going to be deploying KTs.
It doesn't matter that a Division has access to 100 tanks but only 3 KTs. It means you're probably going to see the 3 KTs - just from each player with that Division.
In a 10v10 it means about half of the tanks on Axis side are KTs. You take snapshots of a ~10km length of frontline of Normandy and time after time within that space you have around 10 KTs and it's one of the most common tanks.

If KT was in game it should have been 1 King Tiger in 1 Division. And then we still would have regularly seen KTs in game, especially in team games.
There was about 5 King Tigers in all of Normandy? And did they even see combat? And a 10v10 you could often see about 15 King Tigers in combat together ravaging hordes of Shermans?

And we get this stuff about "hur why is SD44 dead??" How about that if you look at Wargame the most popular mode is 10v10. It doesn't matter how scathing many people are about 10v10, the reality is that if you want a successful game with an active population give them a decent 10v10.
How about how most people must have felt going and checking out Eugen's new game and they go in their beloved 10v10 and they're facing screens of King Tigers (particularly how that is going to go down today where there are a lot of people in fantasy world who are very emotional and upset about confronting the superiority of German weapons and they find that they can't kill KTs with their Stuarts).
How did many of those people feel checking out a new game set in their beloved WW2 and playing their beloved allies and having to fight tons of Panthers even with a realistic balance of power, let alone hordes of of Tigers with a semi-realistic balance of power, let alone KTs. You can't do that and have a successful WW2 RTT.

10v10 on SD44 release was an absolute massacre for the Allies with any competent players on Axis. My friend and I playing Lehr were getting about 100:1 KD ratios as Germans. You couldn't fit the Tiger or King Tiger kills on the kill screen, each tank you had to scroll down a bit to get the full list, and we had tons of Tigers and King Tigers available.


Even 1 KT in 1 Division was going to mean regularly seeing KTs in a conflict where was virtually none and going to damage game experience for some of the player base.

The Tiger1 should have been like the KT; It should have been 2 or 3 Tiger1s in 2 or 3 divisions and even that would be in practice you get floods of Tiger1s.
Panthers, I duno. Perhaps they could've been a bit cheaper but a lot less available, similarly could do that with SD2. Panther's a reality to deal with. Couldn't have SD2 without Panther as it was second most common tank in 1944, on the frontline in tank engagements really it's THE German tank. In SD44 we should have seen a lot more Panthers from standpoint of in proportion to other German tanks, and in SD2 tank fights should be mostly Panthers against hordes of T34.

All of the above can be applied to the Jumbo as well. ofcourse the Jumbo is a far less stronger unit overall so it is not exactly the same.

I agree with you that we see to many King tigers in the game and especially in 10v10. i think the best way to fix this is to make it much more expensive then it currently is. Panthers are pretty realtistic because they together with the panzer 4 were the most numerous German tanks in Normandy. so availability wise the game reflects that well. King tigers joined very late at Normandy in late July-Early August. but only a hand full of them

In my opinion you can,t base the balance or unit availability in Sd44 on 10v10 battles, 10v10 clearly wasn,t the focus of the developers. so the game was at it,s best with immersion and competitiveness when playing 1v1 2v2 or 3v3. 10v10 has sadly be an aftherthougth. and that lead to the game being far better Balanced in the smaller modes but a slugfest in 10v10,s.

i would love to a see a good 10v10 mode in the future but i hope that does not break the balance in the smaller modes because the decks need to be tweaked to function in 10v10.

[acur1231]

Originally posted by runequester:

There were only something like 12 ever built.

If they start accounting for every piece of clapped together junk with a production run in the dozens, we'll drown in it.

And once you include anything like that, every player is going to want 5 of them, meaning realism is shot to pieces in favor of fantasy crap. There's already World of Tanks for the fantasy nerds.

Besides, they are not going to have a Polish underground armyand no developer is going to put the Warsaw uprising in a game.


Conclusion:
Focus on kit that actually saw service during the main battles of Bagration and was fielded in reasonable numbers.

They should. A huge unit of Polish troops that spawns in Warsaw on a certain date, immediately starting a battle with the garrison.