Jagdpanthers or Jagdtigers?

[Sergeant Suika]

So I Russian. And I know firsthand that such self-propelled guns like the ISU-152 (Russian call him the "Slayer of beasts" ) 152 mm gun from a distance can destroy any German tank except the Tiger and the Tiger 2 with the first shot (and sometimes the Tiger can be eliminated with a single shot) I saw in the screenshots of the Germans self-propelled gun, Nashorn, and I was wondering could it be the only German ultimate weapon against ISU? Or are you still planning on something like Jagdpanther or Jagdtiger? Maybe Brummbar? Otherwise, the presence of ISU-152 and 122 in the Soviet Union could pose serious problems with the balance? Also if anyone knows what self-propelled guns used by the Wehrmacht in addition to Sturmgeshutz, then please correct me.

[Maschinengewehr]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Lord of the Chainsaw:

Well basically the 654th Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung was Korps asset and it was used like Tigers would had been used, racing to one point to crush Sherman before going to the next. And the first time Jagdpanther was used was during Operation Bluecoat in that fashion. There is even a quite commonly quoted story of what happened when 3 Jagdpanthers ambushed column of Churchills supporting Scottish infantry.

Oh and the 654th only had 8 Jagdpanthers operational by the time of the D-Day and only got some few vehicles as replacements before Allied breakout from Normandy so they only ever had some 12-15 Jagdpanthers in any given time at best in Normandy.

Good thing for Germans was that 654th got out of France in relatively good shape before refitting in Holland before that whole "bridge too far" thing.

That's great and all but that's the Western Front...

[Maschinengewehr]

Opprinnelig skrevet av roirraw:

How would I know why german military planners attached such a unit to an infantry division? All I'm saying is it will be in the game.

Because they generally weren't?

They'd be part of panzer divisions if anything.

[Sev]

No they don't have to be, as Chainsaw already wrote Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungen were Korps assets and attached to the subordinated Divisions, depending on the Korps they could support any Combat Division no matter of the type.
There is a difference between Panzerjäger Abteilungen in Divisions and the Korps level units.

[roirraw]

Either way, it’s nice to have more units to play with :)

[Maschinengewehr]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Sev:

No they don't have to be, as Chainsaw already wrote Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungen were Korps assets and attached to the subordinated Divisions, depending on the Korps they could support any Combat Division no matter of the type.
There is a difference between Panzerjäger Abteilungen in Divisions and the Korps level units.

"Panzerjäger units were either assigned as the 14th companies in infantry regiments, or as a whole Abteilung (battalion) within Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions, in both the SS and the Heer (regular army)."

So you'd only see Jagdpanthers as units in infantry divisions and as abteilungs in panzer and panzergrenadier divisions. 352 infanterie would only have a unit (5-6) of Jagpanthers at best. You're more likely to see them in 5. Panzerdivision if anything

[Belisarius]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Maschinengewehr:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Sev:

No they don't have to be, as Chainsaw already wrote Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungen were Korps assets and attached to the subordinated Divisions, depending on the Korps they could support any Combat Division no matter of the type.
There is a difference between Panzerjäger Abteilungen in Divisions and the Korps level units.

"Panzerjäger units were either assigned as the 14th companies in infantry regiments, or as a whole Abteilung (battalion) within Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions, in both the SS and the Heer (regular army)."

So you'd only see Jagdpanthers as units in infantry divisions and as abteilungs in panzer and panzergrenadier divisions. 352 infanterie would only have a unit (5-6) of Jagpanthers at best. You're more likely to see them in 5. Panzerdivision if anything

Well, for the games sake you could accept the possibility that jagdpanthers were dispatched to adress shortfalls in infantrydivisions . elements of 5. Fallschirmjager acted as infantry in other divisions, so there was quite a lot of improvisation going on to make do. So maybe not historically accurate, but definitely fun!

[Sev]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Maschinengewehr:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Sev:

No they don't have to be, as Chainsaw already wrote Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungen were Korps assets and attached to the subordinated Divisions, depending on the Korps they could support any Combat Division no matter of the type.
There is a difference between Panzerjäger Abteilungen in Divisions and the Korps level units.

"Panzerjäger units were either assigned as the 14th companies in infantry regiments, or as a whole Abteilung (battalion) within Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions, in both the SS and the Heer (regular army)."

So you'd only see Jagdpanthers as units in infantry divisions and as abteilungs in panzer and panzergrenadier divisions. 352 infanterie would only have a unit (5-6) of Jagpanthers at best. You're more likely to see them in 5. Panzerdivision if anything

Wow nice wiki quote, still wrong. Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger were only distributed to Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungen which in turn were all Korps level units just like schwere Panzer Abteilungen (outlier for the latter the Divisions Totkpf, GD and FH).
As I said there are differences between Divisional and Korps level Panzerjäger units.

[Maschinengewehr]

Opprinnelig skrevet av freekyfilter:

Well, for the games sake you could accept the possibility that jagdpanthers were dispatched to adress shortfalls in infantrydivisions . elements of 5. Fallschirmjager acted as infantry in other divisions, so there was quite a lot of improvisation going on to make do. So maybe not historically accurate, but definitely fun!

True.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Sev:

Wow nice wiki quote, still wrong. Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger were only distributed to Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungen which in turn were all Korps level units just like schwere Panzer Abteilungen (outlier for the latter the Divisions Totkpf, GD and FH).
As I said there are differences between Divisional and Korps level Panzerjäger units.

That's not what literally every source I can find online says about it.

Move along.

[Sev]

I don't care for your inability to use Google nor having no knowledge about the topics you talk.

This is the attachment list for the 654. Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung:
1. November 1943 Panzerbrigade 10
31. März 1944 Regiments-Ausbildungs-Stab Streit
6. Juni 1944 Panzerbrigade 10
3. Juli 1944 VII. Armeekorps
8. Juli 1944 II. SS-Panzerkorps
13. Juli 1944 XXXVII. Panzerkorps
30. Juli 1944 LXXIV. Armeekorps
15. August 1944 5. Panzerarmee
25. August 1944 LVIII. Panzerkorps
27. August 1944 General der Panzertruppen West
24. September 1944 Arbeitsstab Waldeck
2. Oktober 1944 Stell. Gen.Kdo. XIII. AK
20. November 1944 LXIII. Armeekorps
23. November 1944 Höheres Kommando Eifel
28. November 1944 LXIII. Armeekorps
23. Dezember 1944 19. Armee
26. Dezember 1944 LXIV. Armeekorps
17. Januar 1945 Heeresgruppe G
20. Januar 1945 XXXIX. Panzerkorps
21. Januar 1945 19. Armee
23. Januar 1945 LXIV. Armeekorps
8. Februar 1945 19. Armee
21. Februar 1945 General der Panzertruppen West
6. März 1945 5. Panzerarmee
7. März 1945 Korpsgruppe Bayerlein
8. März 1945 LXXXI. Armeekorps
9. März 1945 11. Panzer-Division
13. März 1945 Kampfgruppe Hudel
16. März 1945 11. Panzer-Division
19. März 1945 Korpsgruppe Bayerlein
24. März 1945 Kampfgruppe Hudel
29. März 1945 LIII. Armeekorps

Totaly a Divisional Unit, now bugger off and play somewhere else the wiki expert.

[Maschinengewehr]

Nice one pulling obfuscated text out of your arse like that.

Boy, these 'boos think they know everything after they play some WWII games lol.

[Sev]

In regards to you it's not even hard to know more wikiwarrior, so go ahead tell me in which Division served the 654. Schw. PzJg Abt.
Im dying to see you projectile vomiting even more bs oh grand expert of nothing.

[♔ Affable 7th Wave Teaboo ♔]

Just want to remind everyone that the original question was not a hypothetical "whether this is historically justifiable in general" but whether any of the specific formations featured in the game has them and whether their lack will have a detrimental effect on balance.

Seems like the answer to the former is straightforward "no" and to the latter: "Germans in SD2 have plenty of tools to deal with heavy armour at long range, and don't necessarily need extra rare cats for that".

[Sev]

Yep, sums it up pretty good.
I dislike that hype about KT, IS-2s and the like anyway which comes naturally with late war games.

1942 would offer the best balance and god what would I give for a Caucasus campaign setting.

[nord2hammer]

Opprinnelig skrevet av British chap can into space?:

Just want to remind everyone that the original question was not a hypothetical "whether this is historically justifiable in general" but whether any of the specific formations featured in the game has them and whether their lack will have a detrimental effect on balance.

Seems like the answer to the former is straightforward "no" and to the latter: "Germans in SD2 have plenty of tools to deal with heavy armour at long range, and don't necessarily need extra rare cats for that".

For the Jagdtiger & Jagdpanther it's a definite no - Not without a 1945 campaign/expansion.
Currently for the King Tiger it's a no....But if the Lvov–Sandomierz Offensive is added as an expansion-then the King Tiger makes it in.

[roirraw]

352 Infantry Division from Steel Division 1 was named as one of the units that will be in Steel Division 2. It has 4? in it's roster of Total Jagdpanthers available. Not sure if availability will be changed for units in SD 2, but, this should be an answer to "if" and "who". I get the historical issue about these sorts of things, but, this would seem to be the only unit with access to JP.