Gunplay feels really bad

[Big Iron]

I love basically everything about this game, my biggest complaint is with the gunplay.

It feels really bad. Guns flop around like they weigh 20 pounds. I shoot guns in real life and none of my guns handle this bad. I am not a buff, beefy guy either. I dont work out, Im average build, Im not a professional shooter, and I can easily handle a gun better than my character in TWD.

The way the weight works in the game makes two handed guns like rifles and shotguns flop around, making it hard to actually grab it with your second hand after you unsheathe it or reload it. With pistols, trying to raise my pistol and take a shot takes forever because again my arm/the gun flops around and it takes a LONG time to get a good shot. In real life its very easy to quickly raise your arm up and steady your aim almost immediately, in the game it feels like the gun is doing this sway up and down for a few seconds before stabilizing.

The only viable guns are the M4 and Shotgun it seems. The lever action doesnt really have a smooth reload animation, its really strange and I cant figure out what the game is wanting me to do to have a smooth experience with it, and the sight on the lever action is super strange as well. Pistols are basically pointless on any human with a helmet, despite them just wearing basic ♥♥♥ motorcycle helmets with cracks in them that wouldnt be able to stop a .45 round at all, I still have to shoot them multiple times right in the head to kill them.

Its strange when I am a better shot with a bow and arrow with auto-aim turned off than I am with half the guns in the game, and its also strange when a bow and arrow is more viable for damage against headshots/helmets than a .45 would be.

Also the M4 has too much kick. If you watch people shoot an M4 they dont have that much kick. Heres a guy with an average build firing an M4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBHuUnGgd-E

As you can see, it has a kick but the gun is not flying up into the air like you just shot an elephant gun with one hand. Even without the foregrip he has on his M4, the gun is easy to control because its ergonomically designed to be easy to control, especially with the kinds of stocks and butts M4's have. In the game Ive even set the M4 to single shot, which in every game Ive played gives maximum control, but in this game every shot still recoils like Im a little kid with no strength who has never shot a gun before in his life.

Please consider looking into the gun physics such as recoil, weight, and sound effects, because I feel like if these things were dialed in the game would be virtually perfect in every way.

Edit: Interestingly it seems mostly its The Sheriff and the other .45 for handguns that have this problem. It IS a big gun, but would be much more fun to use it it didnt sway as much. The 9mm doesnt really have this issue and Im able to quick draw it and get a target very fast. Rifles remain wonky in my opinion, shotguns are definitely the most viable two handed firearm.

[PeaceMaker]

How do you turn auto aim for Bows off? I hate the auto-aim in this game.

[Big Iron]

Originally posted by Socratatus:

How do you turn auto aim for Bows off? I hate the auto-aim in this game.

Heres my post on how to disable auto aim: https://steamcommunity.com/app/916840/discussions/0/1742265551911378235/

Im guessing for bows its the throwing auto aim since the arrow is a physical object.

[PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by Glitch:

Originally posted by Socratatus:

How do you turn auto aim for Bows off? I hate the auto-aim in this game.

Heres my post on how to disable auto aim: https://steamcommunity.com/app/916840/discussions/0/1742265551911378235/

Im guessing for bows its the throwing auto aim since the arrow is a physical object.

THANKYOU. I never knew this was possible.

[Lyncks]

Keep in mind that things like recoil and bullet penetration in games are tools for making the game fun and balanced and aren't necessarily intended to be realistic. An accurate M4 with very little vertical recoil would probably be unbalanced compared to other weapons and enemies.

[feel eep]

I wish they’d tone down the lag and weight of the guns. They feel awful to move around and point at stuff.

[Zlondrej]

Here I was going to steam discussions to rant about guns and this just happened to be a first topic.

Tourist has just so flimsy hands. Reloading bolt action rifle normally is nearly impossible. As soon as you release your primary hand to grab the bolt, it drops about half meter down. And even the when you grab the bolt, it's like the gun was hanging on the string.

Lever action is also wonky and maybe even inconsistent. First time I had trouble consistently reloading. When I played second day, something was different and after each shot, lever went automatically down and with that it was much easier to reload.

One other thing, when scrapping guns (or when they break), I think that you should be able to get loaded ammo back. I wouldn't even mind to do that manually, but I couldn't figure how to unload lever action rifle.

[Big Iron]

Originally posted by Lyncks:

Keep in mind that things like recoil and bullet penetration in games are tools for making the game fun and balanced and aren't necessarily intended to be realistic. An accurate M4 with very little vertical recoil would probably be unbalanced compared to other weapons and enemies.

It doesnt have to be 100% realistic, but my biggest complaint is really how they handle. How they feel to move around and aim. It feels like Im in a pool of water when trying to aim. Couple this with the other issues and unfortunately I basically never want to use a gun, and the only gun that is really viable to me is the shotgun.

Guns are already balanced due to low durability and the sound attracting walkers. Ammo can also become scarce at points in the game, Ive been at a few points where for a day or two I had no .45 ammo for example and didnt have the resources to craft any. Guns should be "overpowered" in the sense that when you do pull one out to use, you mow down your enemies, but at the cost of it being resource heavy and risking getting overwhelmed with walkers. Or contrary wise, when getting overwhelmed as a last resort, pulling out your gun should be a method to get out of that situation, vs. guns being basically useless and it being more effective to throw a knife than shoot a .45.

Generally I think my point is that numerous games have already tackled guns and there are generally two models of gunplay in VR. One is the arcade shooter, ala Serious Sam for example, where the guns are very unrealistic. The other is more realistic- Boneworks, Onward, Pavlov, H3VR. TWDSS has clearly tried to implement realistic physics in their game, and even if there are levels of realism to it, its at the expense of fun and utility, making guns something I dont want to use, but sometimes the game basically forces me to use them in certain situations, and instead of feeling good about that, I get frustrated by the experience.

[Big Iron]

Originally posted by Zlondrej:

Here I was going to steam discussions to rant about guns and this just happened to be a first topic.

Tourist has just so flimsy hands. Reloading bolt action rifle normally is nearly impossible. As soon as you release your primary hand to grab the bolt, it drops about half meter down. And even the when you grab the bolt, it's like the gun was hanging on the string.

Lever action is also wonky and maybe even inconsistent. First time I had trouble consistently reloading. When I played second day, something was different and after each shot, lever went automatically down and with that it was much easier to reload.

One other thing, when scrapping guns (or when they break), I think that you should be able to get loaded ammo back. I wouldn't even mind to do that manually, but I couldn't figure how to unload lever action rifle.

I know you can unlock the revolvers by just dumping the ammo out, which is a really cool feature. Not sure about the other guns though.

And yeah the lever action is really weird. Its not clear what the game wants me to do in order to reload it, or how much force I need to use to do it.

[PeaceMaker]

Using guns realistically IS fun. I wish it was MORE realistic, not less.

[Kurtino]

To be honest I like it because I feel less powerful, and although it sounds weird to add artificial constraints in a game, I think it adds to the atmosphere.

If the game played like Pavlov I think I'd just be one tapping everything in the head, wasting no ammo, just godmode-ing it, and I think the game having slow enemies and mediocre shooters fits well that its hard to manage things.

Like a single walker coming up to me poisoned, and I can't melee him so I pull out my two handed lever action, and I'm scrambling to aim it properly at its head and flick the ammo back in with the reload system, its tense. I wouldn't get that tenseness if I had full control over the gun.

I like it for immersion of the experience overall. I think you'd find the game too easy otherwise.

[Sir Lucient]

I'm also a Gun nut, and I fully agree with the idea being thrown around here.

Balance is one thing, But being able to move my hands around without the weapon feeling like it's 20lbs is another point all together. I agree it's a Balance issue, but this makes gun fights with the really bad AI in this game feel REALLY bad.

I'm not trying to Brag or anything, but in most VR games I can Pull off Quick snap shots in fractions of a Second usually very very accurately. I've Put in a lot of Practice and had real life training. But in This game My Character takes WAAY to long to even RAISE his weapon, let alone line up the sights. And if you switch from one Target to the next he has to once again take his sweet ass time lining up the sights.

Now, to make the point here, I fully understand The Player is meant to be some "guy" Not a Military vet, or a Police officer, or EX Special forces. And the Limits in the game are meant to reflect that. But the current level of this is to much in my opinion. These "Slow motion" effects could be cut in half, and still provide the same feeling.

[Big Iron]

Originally posted by Sir Lucient:

I

Now, to make the point here, I fully understand The Player is meant to be some "guy" Not a Military vet, or a Police officer, or EX Special forces. And the Limits in the game are meant to reflect that. But the current level of this is to much in my opinion. These "Slow motion" effects could be cut in half, and still provide the same feeling.

Thats my point, Im just some guy, but in real life am not this limited at all.

[PeaceMaker]

I actually enjoy firing a shotgun, then having to back track hard while madly putting new shot gun rounds into my gun while zombies come at me. I even love firing a rifle then having to do that bolt action to reload each time.

Yes, it`s mildly stressful, yes, it might feel `not fun` at first, but then you realise the MOST FUN you had was in those moments when you finally managed to reload aim and win!

It feels like an early episode of The Walking Dead in which I am in!

Stress, difficuly and overcoming it to win is what makes CLASSIC games ultimately enjoyable and memorable. It`s not all just mindless angry bird or fruit ninja that you forget 2 seconds later!

[RedcoatTrooper]

Originally posted by feel eep:

I wish they’d tone down the lag and weight of the guns. They feel awful to move around and point at stuff.

I must admit I really like the weight feel of the guns and two handed weapons, it will be hard to go back to a game like Pavlov now where you can throw a 50. cal rifle and a machene gun arround like its nothing.

[SomeBee]

Originally posted by RedcoatTrooper:

Originally posted by feel eep:

I wish they’d tone down the lag and weight of the guns. They feel awful to move around and point at stuff.

I must admit I really like the weight feel of the guns and two handed weapons, it will be hard to go back to a game like Pavlov now where you can throw a 50. cal rifle and a machene gun arround like its nothing.

Play Boneworks then, super weighty items