A word about the stealth

[Incarnate]

I've heard people complain about the two stealth missions. But I actually kind of like them. The AI in this game is way smarter than actual stealth games. For an insta-fail mission, this is way more forgiving than some other games. I think the only problem is that you have to know exactly who to kill and who to avoid.

The boss fight in the laboratory mission is way more obnoxious. It's really the only weak point in the game.

[Kritzburgh]

The problem with the first stealth mission is if you're unlucky enough to run into a bug, it kinda ruins the playthrough. The bug is when the last guard get alerted to your presence, but doesn't run to an alarm to give the player the fail state of "an alarm has been sounded". Instead, when you try to enter the truck, it tells the player that only 3/4 objectives have been completed, and when you check the notebook, it says you haven't ensured that all the alarms haven't been sounded. As long as you don't run into that bug, it's fine.

The stealth in this game is actually decent and plays pretty fine. For instance, certain enemies react to footsteps or a door opening, but there's a distinction where they don't react if you hold down CAPS LOCK to walk slowly and open doors quietly. Many guard patrols are purposely designed to be able to be taken out stealthily, usually in conjunction with other guard patrols. If you memorize these patterns or use the lean feature, most levels can be partially completed stealthily, and in some, it's actually a huge benefit. Norway and the Bramburg Dam missions are ones that are heavily incentivized to be completed stealthily, because any alarm tripping results in a higher enemy count presence. That's how it should've been done with the Forest level, in my opinion.

[Incarnate]

Originally posted by Kritzburgh:

Many guard patrols are purposely designed to be able to be taken out stealthily, usually in conjunction with other guard patrols. If you memorize these patterns or use the lean feature, most levels can be partially completed stealthily, and in some, it's actually a huge benefit. Norway and the Bramburg Dam missions are ones that are heavily incentivized to be completed stealthily, because any alarm tripping results in a higher enemy count presence. That's how it should've been done with the Forest level, in my opinion.

I like how you can sneak into the rocket site on the crane and rail cart. Almost feels like a Thief level, even if the second half of that mission is just going Terminator on the whole base.

The only thing this game needed to be a great stealth game was a distraction mechanic. Kind of like the noisemaker arrow from Thief.

[Kritzburgh]

Originally posted by Incarnate:

Originally posted by Kritzburgh:

Many guard patrols are purposely designed to be able to be taken out stealthily, usually in conjunction with other guard patrols. If you memorize these patterns or use the lean feature, most levels can be partially completed stealthily, and in some, it's actually a huge benefit. Norway and the Bramburg Dam missions are ones that are heavily incentivized to be completed stealthily, because any alarm tripping results in a higher enemy count presence. That's how it should've been done with the Forest level, in my opinion.

I like how you can sneak into the rocket site on the crane and rail cart. Almost feels like a Thief level, even if the second half of that mission is just going Terminator on the whole base.

same, and in that same level, you can hide in storage behind some boxes while 7 guards run past, it's a humorous moment

[+]3D[+NuclearRodent]

I'd love to understand the logic behind the alarm sounding when i used a knife. ♥♥♥♥ design like this is why i HATE older shooters

[Incarnate]

Originally posted by NuclearRodent:

I'd love to understand the logic behind the alarm sounding when i used a knife. ♥♥♥♥ design like this is why i HATE older shooters

Someone saw you probably. Some guards are programmed to run to alarms not fire at you. Old FPS games didn't dumb down the AI like modern games. Snipers can get off two shots usually from across map before you even realize where they are.

This isn't like Metal Gear Solid 5 where enemies are blind past five meters in front of their face. The forest stealth mission can be a ♥♥♥♥♥ though.

[Kritzburgh]

Originally posted by NuclearRodent:

I'd love to understand the logic behind the alarm sounding when i used a knife. ♥♥♥♥ design like this is why i HATE older shooters

If it's not a clean backstab (if the kill isn't instant), others nearby might be alerted as if you shot your gun. Can be kinda jank until you get used to the angle you gotta approach from - slightly from the right so that your knife hits their back first instead of your body. Once you get the silenced Sten, it's better to just use that for stealth.

[+]3D[+NuclearRodent]

it's not that, it's the fact that even if I do it perfect, the alarm will still go off.

[Kritzburgh]

Ah yeah, since you're getting clean stabs, it's definitely someone else seeing either you or a dead body then and running to sound the alarm, which fails the mission assuming you're on a stealth level. There are 1 or 2 encounters I can think of where it feels like there's some omnipresent being failing you even when you did nothing wrong, but even in those cases, there's an enemy that actually runs and trips an alarm because they saw something. There can be a considerable delay in-between being spotted and the alarm actually being hit, and in that time, you might have stabbed someone right before you get a game over, making it feel like it was the stab that caused it even though it's unrelated.

It's trial and error to figure out how to complete a clean run consistently. Sometimes you can get away with being spotted if you break line of sight fast enough (a guard will say aloud "Is someone zere?" .... "Ah, it's nothing").

As a tip, you can lean around corners. When you're leaning, no one can see you. You can also hold caps lock to walk quietly and open doors quietly.

[+]3D[+NuclearRodent]

thanks