Ending discussion (SPOILERS - only read if finished main plot)

[Baron_Manic]

Okay so I heard rumblings on these forums about the average ending but my word what a mess it is! I mean I get what the writers were trying to do to build up to the climactic final entry in what will ultimately by a trilogy but the ending is so rushed and inconsistent that it really left a nasty taste in my mouth despite being a good game overall on par with the first.

Talking of nasty, in my game she abandoned me and then at the end I found out she had died? And then let's talk about my final chat with Caja where she flat out doesn't even acknowledge her and Jax's sons sacrifice! It's all over the place in terms of wrapping up threads and loose ends. What happened to Dawkins? What was the changeling? Why is there loads of Mana monsters now roaming the lands? I followed the Cleric path and there is literally no explanation at the end to why there is suddenly loads of monsters now in Magalan.

Such a shame as the game itself was pretty decent up to the final few missions. No real resolution for side characters, no real hook to keep you excited for the third game ... these writers have a good concept but they have told the tale in such a bad way that I am seriously considering ending my time with the Elex universe now!

What do others think who have finished the game? Keen to know your thoughts on the ending

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

And then let's talk about my final chat with Caja where she flat out doesn't even acknowledge her and Jax's sons sacrifice!

Then talk. I mean, you say "let's talk" about it, but you don't. Dex is a cliffhanger. His fate is uncertain, isn't it? A brute-force implementation of a game's "The End" screen would return you to the game's main menu. It's a major tradeoff that the game is letting players continue exploring the virtual world and fighting creatures, too, but without any story/NPC progression.

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

What happened to Dawkins?

The sequel will tell.

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

What was the changeling?

One of the scientists from the Cassandra mission, who has transformed the most into an elemental of Dark Elex.

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

Why is there loads of Mana monsters now roaming the lands?

As mentioned above, their only purpose is to give those players something to do, who want to continue running around and fight some more.

[Versalium]

Everything that's happened after end credits scene is not canon.
I killed Logan after credits in the first game. But in the second game he's alive and well.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Versalium eredeti hozzászólása:

Everything that's happened after end credits scene is not canon.
I killed Logan after credits in the first game. But in the second game he's alive and well.

Nothing from your playthrough of the first game is transferred to the sequel. Player's actions before the game's end screen may not match the canon story at all, such as but not limited to Jax not joining the berserkers, Jax dating Nasty instead of Caja, Jax serving the Hybrid, ...

[Borkentroll]

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

my final chat with Caja where she flat out doesn't even acknowledge her and Jax's sons sacrifice!

This is a bit of an oversight on the devs side. If Jax returns to Dex during the very last main mission before ending it, you'll see a cutscene. After that, Caja will speak about Dex. Though she is a bit to soft for my taste in that regard, given her usual temper about Jax' decisions. Missing the cutscene seems to not trigger her speech about Dex. Anyways, Dex fate will surely be decided in the third ELEX, as well as Dawkins' fate (he lives, teleported to some safehouse, I think).

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

What was the changeling?

Dawkins got something to tell Jax about that and the Changeling itself pretty much explained itself to Jax just before trying to destroy him. In short: The changelings are Avatars of Dark Elex, whilst Dawkins and Jax can be considered Avatars of Blue Elex.

In my opinion the Pilgrim and Caja could be considered Avatars of Orange Elex, aka Mana - but that is solely based on some hints from Elex I - especially Caja beeing able to talk to Elex in its blue and orange form and her mastery of mana. And because of that, Dex is so very special - beeing the offspring of two Avatars of Elex. I Guess he will play a major role in ELEX III.

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

there is literally no explanation at the end to why there is suddenly loads of monsters now in Magalan.

I am pretty sure, some NPC or another told Jax during the very last main quest that with the appearence of the changelings and the nearing of the Singularity, ELEX as a whole is acting up and thats why all the monsters creep from their holes. In my playthrough (factionless - finaly it was possible) it was also mainly mana-driven monsters appearing on the map. Could that be a hint for the third ELEX beeing centred around mana?

So long story short: I am totally up for a third ELEX! I hope I get to meet Singularity or God, as I think Dawkins was calling it (funny, if you think about his real world namesake)!

And though I did find the monster mashing in the last chapter a bit bland compared to the other quests (especially the rather good companion quests), I think these quests fit the story - you fight a war against a strange otherworldly invasion.

[Dorok]

OP doesn't seem have understood the main story, ask what was the changeling is big and is showing he didn't get large chunks of the story.

I also feel the question on Dawkins is weird, he fled and had no plan to fight himself the aliens and let Jax do it. What's the problem?

For Nasty abandoning Jax, that's very easy to get Nasty angry at you but you get a heavy warn that she is close to left, I had the warn or warns, but then put care and bring her back to neutral is enough, she won't leave and will make all combats and won't die. OP can't complain there's a consequence from him failing keep Nasty with Jax/Bastion.

For Mana escalating, it looks a lot like a teaser for ELEX 3, it hasn't to be explained already in ELEX 2, it will become incoherent only if ELEX3 just ignore and explains nothing.

For Dex "death" and Caja not having any comment with Jax on the topic, there's a clear writing problem, but it starts from not getting back his son body from the machine, this is also just weird writing. So ok that whole Dex "death" affair hasn't a clean writing, but it's the only serious hole, other points listed by OP are more coming from a lack of understanding of the main story.

[Borkentroll]

Dorok eredeti hozzászólása:

For Dex "death" and Caja not having any comment with Jax on the topic, there's a clear writing problem, but it starts from not getting back his son body from the machine, this is also just weird writing. So ok that whole Dex "death" affair hasn't a clean writing, but it's the only serious hole, other points listed by OP are more coming from a lack of understanding of the main story.

It's not weird getting Dex not out of the machine, and no writing problem. This machine is the only thing keeping Dex alive at all after he interfaced himself with it - a highly probable outcome as Dex himself stated before going in. Dex is unconcious as far as Jax knows, but alive. If Jax would take Dex out by force, his son would definitively die.

And again, Caja talks about the decision Jax made regarding Dex - IF Jax visits his son in the machine before finishing the very last main mission (the one after the battle with the changeling).

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Not sure what sort of reaction (whether in a cutscene or not) some players want. A major drama in cutscene cinematics? Shouting, screaming, tears? What's so difficult about accepting cliffhangers?

[Dorok]

Borkentroll eredeti hozzászólása:

Dorok eredeti hozzászólása:

For Dex "death" and Caja not having any comment with Jax on the topic, there's a clear writing problem, but it starts from not getting back his son body from the machine, this is also just weird writing. So ok that whole Dex "death" affair hasn't a clean writing, but it's the only serious hole, other points listed by OP are more coming from a lack of understanding of the main story.

It's not weird getting Dex not out of the machine, and no writing problem. This machine is the only thing keeping Dex alive at all after he interfaced himself with it - a highly probable outcome as Dex himself stated before going in. Dex is unconcious as far as Jax knows, but alive. If Jax would take Dex out by force, his son would definitively die.

This would have been a proper writing, but you didn't read well, or it's me or it's some translation problems.

But nope, your writing suggestion makes sense, but is no way the game writing:
- Jax clearly breaks saying clearly Dex is dead, the most clear dialog of it is happening when you go to the machine past the shutdown.
- But there's also some other dialog that will trigger along last parts, there are Jax comment on Dex death no doubt possible in Jax mind.

Borkentroll eredeti hozzászólása:

And again, Caja talks about the decision Jax made regarding Dex - IF Jax visits his son in the machine before finishing the very last main mission (the one after the battle with the changeling).

Didn't noticed, but ok that point is possible and didn't noticed well in my first play, in second play skipped check the machine.

Still Caja reaction is very soft from what I read, and it's not feeling much coherent, but ok I would need dig this point.

But I'd say that it's still a wrong writing when you don't visit the machine, then Jax has some comment on Dex death, and after there's nada with Caja.

[Baron_Manic]

Good to see your thoughts! Let me elaborate on some of them …

Dawkins - I get his disappearance at the end is so he can return for the sequel as maybe a main antagonist but his motives and actions were all over the place and hence a badly written character IMO. Much of the game he’s trying to stop the enemy and help build an army then seemingly by the end he’s in league with them - this shift just seems so poorly executed and sudden and I get the writers probably intended it to be that way but it just didn’t land well for me and made him a muddled character with muddled intentions

As for the fate of Dex, I’m pretty sure he will end up being alive in some form in the next game and perhaps jax visiting his capsule at the end implies he knows he may still be alive? But generally I think it was ambiguous in a bad writing way as opposed to clever. Caja barely mentions her sons final actions and that came across as if it was written in last minute and they missed an opportunity for a poignant moment between two parents and their heroic son. It was a real flat landing to finish up the game.

The finale was generally off for me. Your berserker captain (can’t remember his name thailg maybe?) barely did anything in the end fight save standing outside the main former on his own then implies a massive victory at the end and fighting by jax side - that didn’t happen. It’s small things like this that showed the ending was rushed and left a bad impression for me - endings can have cliffhangers and ambiguity but this one was disjointed and a step back from Elex 1

Final point on Nasty - I knew she’d leave my group and that was no surprise but then the end epilogue says she’s died and it ‘weighed on jax mind’ - well I’m meant to be jax and it very much didn’t. Sure it was a shock as I didn’t see how it happened (maybe I was meant to but my play through skipped it?) but it was another showing of a poor wrap up and alienated me from any impactful decision making from my character.

I enjoyed the game overall but the lack of polish in game story grated on me maybe as I think endings (even in a mid game of a trilogy) are key to keep you wanting more. This didn’t, this was basically a retread of elex 1 - build up your strength, find a faction, battle a main enemy wanting to dominate the world … then reveal a greater enemy on the horizon. War with albs v war with skyands wasn’t enough to see the plot grow and improve, only a laziness on writers part - but let’s see if they land the conclusion and there is still time to end on a high with the loose ends and the somewhat interesting concept of The singularity

[Dorok]

It's not Dawkins reaction that isn't fully proper, it's Jax reaction that wants just kill him and the player has no choice on that. In this context Dawkins has no choice but flee and let Jax do the Job, it's totally coherent.

Now if you want argue on that:
- Lack of choice for player ok it's not cool but let face it, again, there won't be any save import in ELEX3. So it's more a problem of being a bit too obvious for ELEX3 and that most probably the ELEX trilogy will be a the story of Jax... and Dawkins and fully clarified for Dawkins only in last parts of ELEX3. And pretty sure no player can already predict the Dawkins full story.
- For Jax getting mad against Dawkins it's developed along many Jax comments realizing he has been constantly manipulated all along since before ELEX1 and again during ELEX2 and want put it to an end, and fails. So it's not so much incoherent in my opinion.

For Dex, yeah missed opportunity, and again the openings for ELEX3 looks too obvious, but with some imagination the writing could bring on the table some surprises anyway.

Wars: Yeah one more RPG not figuring properly wars and the list is long, starting from NWN2 putting a lot of efforts to only achieve a big flop. Assassin Creed Valhalla and Sword Lands trilogy are the only RPG I remind to really figure well wars, even if it's rarely with a real challenge aspect but still good action and good scenery in both. What to say, if you found ELEX1 did a better job on that, I didn't or it was just a tiny bit better not really worth any quote.

Nasty death: Ok if you didn't skipped some details, it's not proper writing.

Game story polish, let agree to disagree, I'll give you a clear point only for the marginal case of Nasty death and final parts related to Dex. But overall, I can add also that I didn't get fully the reasons of two scientists rockets, but I found the writing fairly solid and as good than in ELEX1, with a much tougher context, to continue a story and not disappoint. I would even say that ELEX2 seems conclude full ELEX1 story, everything unclear in ELEXE1 seems explained fairly well, and ELEX3 seems to be a total new chapter, the anomaly, with one cliffhanger with Dex, and one story aspect to fully finish the real plans of Dawkins.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Baron_Manic eredeti hozzászólása:

Your berserker captain (can’t remember his name thailg maybe?) barely did anything in the end fight save standing outside the main former on his own then implies a massive victory at the end and fighting by jax side - that didn’t happen.

All allies from Bastion are part of small strike groups that fight the Skyands on the way to the former. Eventually, for gameplay reasons it's up to Jax to get the final job done.

Decades ago a game like this likely would have implemented NPC companions/allies that follow Jax into battles and can die, too. Too many players dislike that. Particularly, if not much can be done to prevent NPC companions from getting killed as a result of poor AI behavior or insufficient level or equipment. Similarly, NPC companions/allies that only serve as cannon fodder and can only be knocked out but cannot be killed, that sucks, too.


The endgame content of ELEX is about the Battle of Xacor, a series of rather simple, wild and scripted group battles that can be exploited in various ways (and the invasion of Abessa involves earlier battles against larger groups). The real end within the Ice Palace is strange, considering that there is nobody left who opposes Jax. Even the robots are neutral/friendly.

And consider the three nuances at the end of ELEX. One is Jax choosing to serve the Hybrid. Yeah, the biggest cliffhanger in the first game. Even more so, since gameplay continues after the end, and it's the ending that isn't continued in the sequel.

[Dorok]

D'amarr from Darshiva eredeti hozzászólása:

Decades ago a game like this likely would have implemented NPC companions/allies that follow Jax into battles and can die, too. Too many players dislike that. Particularly, if not much can be done to prevent NPC companions from getting killed as a result of poor AI behavior or insufficient level or equipment. Similarly, NPC companions/allies that only serve as cannon fodder and can only be knocked out but cannot be killed, that sucks, too.

Decades ago is more many decades ago, because NWN2 has a part focused on war and it's an objective disaster to figure any war.

I don't see much what RPG you are referring, myself I only quoted an indie RPG module trilogy, Sword Lands trilogy that is showing some proper example of war in RPG, until recently Valhalla even if without much real challenge aspect.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Dorok eredeti hozzászólása:

Decades ago is more many decades ago, because NWN2 has a part focused on war and it's an objective disaster to figure any war.

You have misunderstood me completely.

I'm not talking about "war" in general, but about whether companion NPCs and named allies can die - compared with the more modern, dumbed down gameplay implementations where they can only be knocked out temporarily and will stand up again after some time (or at the end of a battle).

And I said "decades ago", because games made in the 90s or 80s had more companions that could be killed - with limited options to resurrect them.

The first ELEX featured a few allied story NPCs that could die. Reinhold, for example. Others can only be knocked out.

[Dorok]

Well companions not dying is nothing new, when there's like 5 to 7 companions, accept a companion death is more a gameplay design illusion that in practice will never happen anyway, thanks to reload magic.

[Borkentroll]

Dorok eredeti hozzászólása:

Well companions not dying is nothing new, when there's like 5 to 7 companions, accept a companion death is more a gameplay design illusion that in practice will never happen anyway, thanks to reload magic.

That's what Iron Man modes are for. ;)