Why do NPCs act as if you're stealing when you are not?

[1984]

Many items in cities are not labeled as "STEAL" and you can freely take them. When I was starting the game I was not aware of this and I thought I was stealing but did not steal enough so they didn't attack me.

Later I learned that if you take them it is not considered stealing by the game as those items are not owned by anyone but for some reason NPCs that see you take them still curse at you and talk you down. Why? What is wrong with picking up items that do not belong to others.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Deja vu?
--> https://steamcommunity.com/app/900040/discussions/0/5312592307016838133/

[Dorok]

Agree with OP it's a weird design detail. But here are probably the rules:
- Stealing is only with red label, caution with a wrong angle you could see only the white label part and not the red label part, but there's a safeguard, all those items require a long press to open/loot them.
- White label (without red part) is simple click to loot/open, it's never ever stealing, there's never consequences from NPC doing any comment.
- NPC comments on white label looting is only a light mood aspect not coherent but still bringing a bit of life, and a clue on how much you are accepted by the faction or NPC. At some point of being eccepted they stop comment white label loot.

Unfortunate design, confusing at first, but you get used to it, and it's a tiny deal.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by ♥ZERO K%♥:

How did you find that lol.

It's a fresh topic opened just a few days ago.

Originally posted by ♥ZERO K%♥:

But it makes no sense if what you say in post 1 is true then how do other npcs know when you are actually stealing ?

At least two things to keep in mind:

(1) Gameplay mechanics. The game features thievery and helper features to hint player when stealth & theft may be required. However, for balancing reasons theft is optional and not a strict requirement. So, there are some freebies to find also in faction camps, provided player looks around a bit.

(2) Items seemingly lying around inside/outside houses may be someone's belongings, and either the nearby NPCs are the owners or know who is the owner, or they know that Jax isn't the owner.

[Dorok]

A steal system is nice in a RPG and for most need be optional. But a warning, without have pick any thief skills, the NPC seeing you stealing is nothing natural, most often obstacles won't matter (perhaps it's cases where there's a tiny hole allowing see a bit the MC but it's still weird), or they can see you but no way they can see you steal because of the height and angle, and they still notice you. With the stealth skills it's probably less annoying because they can reduce distance where you are noticed.

[Bankai9212]

There are no stealth skills or anything to make npcs less likely to notice you. Only skills are pickpocket and lock picking both of which can be improved with chip/specializations.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

There are no stealth skills or anything to make npcs less likely to notice you.

Ooops confusing games recently played.

It makes Stealth and Stealing is failed then, NPC noticing your actions in too many weird cases. Just had a case borderline absurd.

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Only skills are pickpocket and lock picking both of which can be improved with chip/specializations.

Ok.

For pickpocket based on some random luck according to the skill, typical but boredom implementation of pickpocket.

I quoted there's also a skill to reduce fines.

[Bankai9212]

In a game where you save constantly you can basically avoid that.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

In a game where you save constantly you can basically avoid that.

Scamloding is slow, repetitive and boring. That a design include a scamloading appréaoch is one thing because some players just enjoy it, but have a coherent design only with scam-loading is a pure bad design. And let be clear, ton of RPG has been as lazy and dumb on pickpocket skill design.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

In a game where you save constantly you can basically avoid that.

Scamloding is slow, repetitive and boring. That a design include a scamloading appréaoch is one thing because some players just enjoy it, but have a coherent design only with scam-loading is a pure bad design. And let be clear, ton of RPG has been as lazy and dumb on pickpocket skill design.

It’s what I do you are free not to do that, not like paying a fine or going to jail in certain games really effects anything.

[Dorok]

Each player do his own, and I don't bash scamloading, I only explained why it is ultra boring for some players when a desing is coherent only with scamloading.

The fine isn't the core problem, the core problem is the random, make a stealth game where detection is random as in D&D... Nope that's total BS. Same problem with Pickpocket.

[Bankai9212]

That’s because the game isn’t designed around stealth, elder scrolls as basic as the system is at least has something. In pb games not really.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

That’s because the game isn’t designed around stealth, elder scrolls as basic as the system is at least has something. In pb games not really.

In pb games, but ELEX 2. For me ELEX 2 feels like the first with a real focus on it, and if it wasn't the problem of NPC with xray vision it would be good stuff.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

That’s because the game isn’t designed around stealth, elder scrolls as basic as the system is at least has something. In pb games not really.

In pb games, but ELEX 2. For me ELEX 2 feels like the first with a real focus on it, and if it wasn't the problem of NPC with xray vision it would be good stuff.

Pretty sure risen and gothic had stealth also just needed a trainer to teach it so Elex 2 is basically on par with those without the need of a trainer. As for focus hardly, its just a better indicator since you could also steal in elex 1 easily. I guess you can sneak past tougher enemies but you can use the jetpack for that.

[Dorok]

I could not remind well, but I felt ELEX 2 had put more effort in stealth:
- Some quests pushing you to stealth to steal so the faction doesn't know.
- Some quests counting enemies detection.
- Backstab mechanic (when not detected) I don't remind in ELEX 1 or Gothics.
- A skill to reduce fines.
- Red label mechanic isn't new with ELEX 2 but is missing in Gothic 2.

But yeah I checked to be sure but it's right Gothic 2 had stealth training when there's none in ELEX 2 or I didn't quote yet as I only started the thief guild and for now forgot make it progress.

[Bankai9212]

-only a companion quest encourages and you don’t need stealth around the npcs just walk up, crouch to make sure they don’t see then take it.
-don’t recall a single quest tracking detections but I’m guessing the claw quests probably do.
-backstab can be done without stealth
-gothic combat was different.
-reducing fines has little to do with stealth, since you’d pay for fines by starting fights.