Dev pls remove the destruction requirement to join Morkon

[TL;DR]

It is just ridiculous that you only know this requirement at the end of the joining quest. What is the point of killing Khan if you are not allowed to join in the end? So stupid.

[Phantom]

Murder Hobo time

you go murder two or three villages worth of unnamed civilians

might end up spending 10-15k to pay fines and then its all good for people

[Sid Icarus]

I second this. It's a little annoying to have factions locked behind morality sliders when the game doesn't make it clear that that'll be the case until it's far too late (or too much of a hassle) to course correct.

And it really doesn't make all that much sense in relation to the Morkons. Sure, they're a death cult, I get it, BUT their culture is undergoing massive shifts and there are more than a few morkons who don't have "destructive" tendencies. And yes, it's silly to be arbitrarily denied considering what the player does immediately before getting the offer to join.

[iLLuzions]

their games never made anything clear, its Piranha Bytes, we are lucky that we can play the intro without 123692163 patches

[treahnurb]

If you actually play the game and for eg listen to the Morkons and their "morals" and views... then you should be aware. Honestly.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Sid Icarus:

And it really doesn't make all that much sense in relation to the Morkons. Sure, they're a death cult, I get it, BUT their culture is undergoing massive shifts and there are more than a few morkons who don't have "destructive" tendencies. And yes, it's silly to be arbitrarily denied considering what the player does immediately before getting the offer to join.

Tell me if I am wrong but those non-destructive Morkons are NOT in charge thus can't help you join the murder hobo death cult.

[Tekay]

I understand its annoying, on the other hand, why would a "super duper nice guy" want to join a death cult? Doesnt make any sense at all

[Halcyform]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Tekay:

I understand its annoying, on the other hand, why would a "super duper nice guy" want to join a death cult? Doesnt make any sense at all

Pretty much this.

Although, there are moments in the game where it's obvious that some of the Morkons are just regular people stuck with nowhere else to go. You run across a couple seemingly normal people that you help out as well as a small Morkon outpost near a ruined town (forget the name). The outpost has a female quartermaster you can open up dialogue and trader option by brute force using shards to bribe her.

The quartermaster is all like: hey, guy, you are pretty brave to be walking into a Morkon outpost all by your lonesome. You're lucky I'm not feeling hungry right now. Jax is like - huh? Quartermaster goes on to say, well, according to what everyone says, we eat people and babies. You should be terrified and stuff.

Tell me if I am wrong but those non-destructive Morkons are NOT in charge thus can't help you join the murder hobo death cult.

And this.

Elex 2 factions are a complete mess. While I haven't finished the game yet, it appears that the game canon wants Jax story to play out as rebel scum this time around.

[treahnurb]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Halcyform:

And this.

Elex 2 factions are a complete mess. While I haven't finished the game yet, it appears that the game canon wants Jax story to play out as rebel scum this time around.

It's not like it's been an easy choice in ELEX 1, tbh. And I like that. There is no "obvious right" faction to join. I wing with the Clerics now because they seem to be the only ones who aren't ♥♥♥♥♥ towards Jax and actually aknowledge the stuff he's done and they aren't brain washing people any more - but they are by far the weakest faction of them all. Tells a thing or two about balance of power and what happens if you have morals, doesn't it?

[Zaris]

Opprinnelig skrevet av treahnurb:

Clerics ...but they are by far the weakest faction of them all. Tells a thing or two about balance of power and what happens if you have morals, doesn't it?

Cleriques are weak this time not because of their morals but:
1) Skyands landed directly on their main city and destroyed it and killed most likely many
2) Albs drove them out of Ignadon and their leftovers settled down south of the volcano in a new palce (their outpost castle east of the volcano is also overrun by Alb mutants).

The other factions are also quite weakened:
-Berserks: delivery problems from main city, dead miners, too few people and so on
- Outlaws: are just remnants after Berserkers drove them out of the Fort and some stayed behind and joined Berserkers
- Morkons: love to die to fast

Can't remember any Alb problem just now.

[treahnurb]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zaris:

Can't remember any Alb problem just now.

Eh they have problems too. They are the ones closest to the big Skyands territories plus they have internal struggles with Albs not wanting to take Elex, other Albs wanting more Elex, not having enough for everyone and so on.

[oLivera]

If you pickup a few messages in the alb HQ you'd hear what the albs do in their base and how the morkons look like saints in comparison, too bad for the destruction requirement, i was hoping to initiate a change feom within but keep the kinky leather clothes

[Sid Icarus]

It's true that the hardcore Morkons are in charge and decide who joins, but Jax is also the first person to volunteer to join. All others are born in or "poached". They also live in a hole with virtually zero contact with the outside world, how would they confirm or deny the player's destructive tendencies?

As for the reasons a kind player would want to join the Morkons, I imagine the foremost being an attempt to reform them or to help ease them into the wider world. They've only recently breached the surface and they have no idea how to interact with outsiders. The old and brutal ways that allowed them to survive underground are now doing more harm than good.

My personal reasons (as a kind Jax) were that I wanted to infiltrate the Morkons and then work with the Kriitons to soften them up a bit. Help them shed harmful survival traits they no longer needed. It seemed very strange to me that the game would present all these alternative Morkon viewpoints to me, and then pointlessly block me with "X number is not high enough".

If they were PURELY unrepentant psycho killers with no presented alternatives, then yes a high destruction requirement would absolutely make sense. But the way the game actually presents them doesn't mesh with its prerequisite to join.

[treahnurb]

That leads back to the fact though that those "mild" Morkons have nothing to say in who or who doesn't join.

[Sid Icarus]

Sure, but the player does everything the leadership asks of them. Pays tribute, shows respect, takes part in the honorable sacrifice and opens up a space within the balance. The Resistors have no way of verifying how you behave on the outside, they're shut-ins. The only people that bring in outside information are the Poachers and they hate those guys. So what reason would they have to deny you?

Additionally, the Kriitons even existing at all and asking you to be their mole should, at the very least, open up a path towards tricking your way into joining the Morkons if you side with/assist them. To not allow that option makes their existence very thematically awkward.

If a player wants to help the Kriitons, then their two choices boil down to: 1) Breaking all immersion and meta-gaming their destruction through the roof, joining, then blitzing it back down again. Or: 2) Joining the Morkons naturally as a violent psychotic and then having a complete change of heart and helping the kind/peaceful Kriitons.

Both choices make little sense to me. In my opinion, the cleanest way of resolving this discrepancy would be to open up an alternate path towards joining the Morkons IF the player discovers and decides to assist the Kriitons. It feels like there should be one to begin with, the way the game leads you on.

Or, an even easier solution, uncouple morality from the factions completely. I don't find it an interesting or engaging mechanic in its current application. It exists purely as a roadblock.

[Melbu_Frahma88]

Yeah, you tell em op, it's totally inconceivable that you'd need a high destruction level to join the death cult that binds books in human skin! They should absolutely change the role play requirements for their role playing game because you, random guy on the internet, can't wrap your head around something as simple as "you need to be evil to join the evil cult".

[Borkentroll]

Maybe think about the destruction meter as Jax' inner compass, rather then something like an outside reputation. He just would not join them if he usually is a rather nice guy. It's like some of the dialogue choices in ELEX I that depended on your cold level - if it was too low or too high, Jax just would not give such an answer.

That still begs the question why you could do all the missions for joining the Morkons without a certain level of destruction. I guess because it is kind of traditional for PB games, that you are able to do most or all faction joining quests without blocking your path to all other factions in doing so - and then decide.

As game master in a regular RPG, I would have given my players the choice to do these missions but with some hard decisions that would incure a lot of destruction if done the Morkon way and otherwise failed to gain their trust. The judgement missions Jax had to do implied that it should be somehow like this, but without too much consequence in the end.