NECROMANCER // SUMMONER

[SudKreuz]

Simple question. How many PERMANENT (no temporal) minions can you summon at the same time? How many summoners are within the game?

[tankanidis]

Ursprungligen skrivet av SudKreuz:

thanks a lot for the responses. From what i've read the Acolyte into Necromancer is the most powerful summoner, right?

It's my favourite so far (made one in Early Access in Legacy, made a new one in 1.0)

[SudKreuz]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Peter:

Ursprungligen skrivet av SudKreuz:

thanks a lot for the responses. From what i've read the Acolyte into Necromancer is the most powerful summoner, right?

If you are seeking to gather many permanent minions around you like a moving zoo,
there isn't any workable build like that in higher corruption level maps.

Only builds with a super powerful wraithlord work in higher corruption maps

that's really sad :(

[pvt.bump]

you all forgot the BEE's

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Ursprungligen skrivet av pvt.bump:

you all forgot the BEE's

Bees (and squirrels) are very cool, but rely on Uniques that may not reliably drop, so I wouldn't recommend a new player have them as the goal of their build.

[H4NS]

The answer is: yes.

[tiamats4esgares]

Ursprungligen skrivet av SpiralRazor:

Ursprungligen skrivet av tiamats4esgares:

The chest disables skeletons, so if you're referring to Aaron's Will, then no bueno.

But there's the relic that gives the rogue minion thingy.

And useless bone minions. 5 of them, is it?

And EVERY post has failed to mention the revenant which is even stronger than a wraith. With a low health build, a simple lich passive mode can make it resummon itself every 10 seconds which, for all intents and purposes, makes it permanent. Or you can just make it summon when you cast a spell that gives your minions haste and frenzy. It lasts several minutes so this is better but just letting people know it CAN be essentially permanent.

So you can have 25 permanent minions + whatever transplant gives. If that's 5, then 30 is technically the max. VERY suboptimal, but just saying.

You failed to read the OP....Revenant decays, as do bone minions. Its like saying Areks Flesh is permanent...when actually, regardless of your build or equips, not its not. And Revenant is only stronger than unskilled wraiths.

You failed to read MY post. Revenant, UNLIKE AREKS FLESH, can be up 100% of the time, infinitely forever, easily, even when you are standing there AFK. I'd call that permanent.

If you put 6 points in the Revenant passive it absolutely does more damage than a permanent wraith.

[tankanidis]

Ursprungligen skrivet av SudKreuz:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Peter:

If you are seeking to gather many permanent minions around you like a moving zoo,
there isn't any workable build like that in higher corruption level maps.

Only builds with a super powerful wraithlord work in higher corruption maps

that's really sad :(

Don't listen to them, the wraithlord build was bugged (getting 40% value instead of 4% it was a typo from the devs) and that allowed it to outperform everything else in the game

It's since been fixed

[SudKreuz]

Ursprungligen skrivet av tankanidis:

Ursprungligen skrivet av SudKreuz:

that's really sad :(

Don't listen to them, the wraithlord build was bugged (getting 40% value instead of 4% it was a typo from the devs) and that allowed it to outperform everything else in the game

It's since been fixed

oh oh oh I see... so summoners are as viable as other classes. nice :)

[kknd]

Ursprungligen skrivet av SudKreuz:

Simple question. How many PERMANENT (no temporal) minions can you summon at the same time? How many summoners are within the game?

Well, in my efforts to maximize this without items being factored in:

9 assorted skeletons (sword/board warriors, dual dagger rogues and archers.) from the Skeleton skill itself (along with some Necromancer passives to increase their numbers.)
5 Skeleton Mages (classic, Death Knight melee combatants, Cryo or Pyromancer variants avalible.)
3 Skeletal Vanguard (Skeletons with spears, from passives in a couple of trees or in my case a modifier on Bone Curse.)
2 Golems (one Bone, one Blood to stick in theme, though Frost and Fire variants are avalible.)
2 Wraiths (Via the skill node that makes them perminant but hard caps them to two)

That seems to be as many as realistically possible. I could have more wraiths or zombies, but both are temporary. I could get wraiths from Harvest, but those are temporary. I could get a permanent Abomination (that only eats skeletons and mages) if I cut down my skeleton count to 6 or less.

That being said, the only non-minion skill afforded me (and thus only spender for mana in a fight that isn't replenishing losses) is Bone Curse (which is providing the Vanguards) in this setup, and I've decided to stick with limited duration Wraiths because then I can reliably have 3-6 of them out at all times, dumping mana productively into them.

If we bring items into the mix, I could trade in skeletons for more golems at 4:1 ratio via item, get an extra skeleton (going up to 10) from an affix on armor, make volatile zombies reincarnate on death (going for a single giant one with 100% reincarnate rate de-facto makes them permanent) or get the Wraithlord helm and have a minion that summons wraiths for me (but eats my other minions so... go with the reincarnating zombie maybe?)

If you wanted to go horde with Primalist Beastmaster, you can end up with 4 companion slots, one filled with two wolves. (Because there's a node for that.) Unless you count baby scorpions as minions, in which case the right Scorpion companion build throws out a half dozen IIRC.

One major upside of Beastmaster over Necromancer is that when you've got your slots full of summons? They still have abilities to use, wolves howl for a buff, raptor rampages, lynx swipes, bear roars, spriggan does AoE heal etc. It's something I miss for Necromancer as it leaves me with essentially nothing to spend mana on. (Which to be fair means you can take something other than mana buffs and mana recovery if you felt like it.)

Or you could do Primalist Druid, make a Locust focused Swarmlord build with a pair of companions to supplement it (again, double wolves could work here.)

Sentinel Forgeguard can get you an animated suit of armor as lasting minion and a ton of animated swords as nearly always out 'temporary' minions without items being involved.

Rogue can throw out a comedic number of ballistas and the Falcon.

The only main class that doesn't have minion options is the Mage really.

[tankanidis]

Ursprungligen skrivet av kknd:

One major upside of Beastmaster over Necromancer is that when you've got your slots full of summons? They still have abilities to use, wolves howl for a buff, raptor rampages, lynx swipes, bear roars, spriggan does AoE heal etc. It's something I miss for Necromancer as it leaves me with essentially nothing to spend mana on. (Which to be fair means you can take something other than mana buffs and mana recovery if you felt like it.)

Downside to Beastmaster is the 'revive companion' mechanic

Necromancer minion died? So sad, click summon button, pay mana, its back

BeastMaster companion died, you have to move near them and charge a bar to revive them. Every. Single. Time.

In the early game this will destroy your fun until you get enough +minion armor + minion hp-regen + minion resists to make them stand tall against the world (minions take -50% damage from all sources to begin with, so they beef up well when supported right later on)

A new player will get murdered by this mechanic, someone who's played a few characters will have some of the primalist gear with -50% revive time for companions and make sure their belt or helm or relic has +minion hp regen on it to help out at start of game

P.S. If you want the same 'buffed' feeling from Necro, take transplant, you can make it give frenzy/haste to yourself + bone armor yourself + curse on what you land on + 4 transplant zombies and if you use it, the last node in necromancer gives your minions frenzy/haste when you cast spell, so transplant will cover them via that too!

[SpiralRazor]

Ursprungligen skrivet av tiamats4esgares:

Ursprungligen skrivet av SpiralRazor:

You failed to read the OP....Revenant decays, as do bone minions. Its like saying Areks Flesh is permanent...when actually, regardless of your build or equips, not its not. And Revenant is only stronger than unskilled wraiths.

You failed to read MY post. Revenant, UNLIKE AREKS FLESH, can be up 100% of the time, infinitely forever, easily, even when you are standing there AFK. I'd call that permanent.

If you put 6 points in the Revenant passive it absolutely does more damage than a permanent wraith.

No, i read your simple post....you can "permanently" have Flesh up as well with LLB...its still not permanent though. Ive seen continual, single target 10 to 15k hits out of my 2 perm wraiths that have a full skill tree; 25-27 in the skill...ive never seen anyone post numbers on revenant like that...because theres no way to boost Rev except within that single node...and it totally fails if you figure potential AOE damage by the wraiths. By the same logic, if you go with a massive summons of fire wraiths + the unique wraith # booster, you will do a MASSIVE amount more damage then putting points into Revenant when you could be putting points into end tree damage boost nodes.