Base stats of skills and DPS calculations - how can I see them, help!

[Ratty]

As a new player I find it really confusing to understand why a skill does a certain amount of damage using the in game information..
Am I missing something?

Please help me understand! :)

As an example, the skill Vengeance lv 1 on my naked lv2 Sentinel does 3 DPS.
Where are those coming from?

Strength on this character is 2, this is stated in game to increase by 8% damage on this skill.

Equipping a Gladius with attack speed 1.12 and +10 melee damage suddenly makes the Vengeance skill do 27 DPS.

Why does +10 melee with 1.12 attack speed and 2 strength(+8%) equate to a 24 DPS increase, the skill itself states that its hits perform 125% damage?

I don't like the feeling of having to use outside sources to understand why the game does things so hopefully I'm just missing something basic..

[Brille]

Vengeance has a base damage of 2 (https://www.lastepochtools.com/skills/vengeance)
Add the +10 from your weapon, then multiply with your modifiers and the attackspeed.

[Ratty]

So,
base + added melee * attack speed * strength boost * skill modifier?
(2+10)*1.12*1.08*1.25
That is still only ~18 dps

[Tyyne]

Tooltip DPS can not be trusted sadly. If you want a vague idea of your actual damage, go bonk some training dummies.

[Brille]

Attack speed also scales with the base speed of vengeance, so I guess *1.467 per second which gives you 26.6 dps.
No idea if that's how it actually scales though. Can't find any reference right now.

[Ratty]

Ah, I think I can see how those parameters adds up, but it makes me really confused how I'm supposed to make relevant choices for a skill when everything is kinda obfuscated.

Can I show the base attributes of a skill in-game somehow?

That site, lastepochtools, is really good and does give me some explanation, but why is that hidden from players?

[Tyyne]

Originally posted by Ratty:

Ah, I think I can see how those parameters adds up, but it makes me really confused how I'm supposed to make relevant choices for a skill when everything is kinda obfuscated.

Can I show the base attributes of a skill in-game somehow?

That site, lastepochtools, is really good and does give me some explanation, but why is that hidden from players?

What, how is it hidden? It's a 3rd party tool AFAIK, and not affiliated with the developers. In-game, check the skill [TAGS], those give a lot of info.

[Ratty]

Originally posted by Tyyne:

Originally posted by Ratty:

Ah, I think I can see how those parameters adds up, but it makes me really confused how I'm supposed to make relevant choices for a skill when everything is kinda obfuscated.

Can I show the base attributes of a skill in-game somehow?

That site, lastepochtools, is really good and does give me some explanation, but why is that hidden from players?

What, how is it hidden? It's a 3rd party tool AFAIK, and not affiliated with the developers. In-game, check the skill [TAGS], those give a lot of info.

That was wrong grammar from me, I did not mean the site is hidden, it is fantastic. :)
I meant they (developer) hide a lot of information from players using in-game options.

[Ravenkid9266]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/resources/damage-explained

Quite a read but basically each skill has its own base damage, and each skill treats added damage differently.

Lets look at vengeance since you bring it up:
Base Damage:
2 Physical
Critical Chance: 5%
Critical Multiplier: 200%
Added Damage Effectiveness: 125%
Is a Hit

Scaling:
4% increased damage per point of strength

Tags:
Physical, Melee, Area, Strength

Remember the tooltip dps is not accurate by design.

Here is the "bucket" formula: (Base + Added 1 + Added 2... )*(Increased 1 + Increased 2...)*(More 1)*(More 2)*...

So you can see that those "more damage buckets" really put in the work. Using vengeance that "added damage" is only 125% effective compared to something like Void Cleave that has 400% added damage effectiveness or Antipode of Mesembria with 800%, or Shadow Daggers with 100% crit chance 200% crit multiplier and 340% added damage effectiveness.

[Ratty]

Thank you, I think I kinda figured it out with your help! =)
Not to easy to make on the fly calculations but can give an idea!

So for vengeance for me it would be something like,
(base+added)*(base speed*attackspeedmodifier)*vengeancedamageeffectivness*strengthbonus*averagecritincrease
((2+10)*(1.467*1.12)*1.25*1.08)*1.3=~27

easy... :D

[Lumberjack]

or hover over skill, change item hover back over said skill, unless it is a passive then *shrugs*
Math is not me i hate math.