Still not touching the core issues of the game

[Elhazzared]

It seems obvious to the unaware observer that going for pinacle bosses is the way forward with ARPGs, but only for the unaware observer.

One of the issues that plages PoE is precisely the pinacle bosses that are quite BS to fight and LE already has pretty BS bosses so adding even harder bosses is in my opinion not the way to go at it. Yes the 0.0001% might be happy with that, but do you think the majority of players will? They might at best try it once and then they won't engage with it and just think of it as bad content, just like in PoE.

Instead the focus should be on solving core issues of the game.

The big one is survivability. Right now Ward is the one and only way to survive in the end game and even that is being nerfed. Instead, ward which had already previously been nerfed should have been buffed and life should have been brought to a state where it competes with ward.

Mana regen needs a buff, it should have NEVER have been nerfed in the first place and investing into mana regen should be FAR more rewarding. Even a single tier 5 mana regen affix should feel like a huge improvement because most builds have no space even for a single affix, let alone a lot of them.

Crafting still isn't good. Yes, i'll say this over and over again until it's listened to. Just because LE crafting is better than PoE, that doesn't makes it good! Crafting T20 items should be EASY because you have half a million resistances to fill on top of other defensive stats needing to be upgraded and damage needed to be filled as well. LE has so much good gear that is hard to get, items with legendary potential which also needs to be high rolled and then needing luckto transfer the right affixes to it. Items wsith 5 affixes, Items with exalted affixes added to all the calculations above. Fully upgrading an item shouldn't be hard when you already have so many other areas to consider and work with that make gearing still a hard and fun process.

Lastly I'm going to talk about a specific type of build knowing full well it's not the only type of build that has a problem but I can only talk about the one I know about and that is necromancer.

Frankly speaking, necromancers are bad. Minions don't have any survivability needing constant resummoning which isn't fun, most minion players play them because they want to summon the minions and let them do the work, they play it because they don't want having to press 5 million keys all the time. Needing constant resummons in and of itself is already horrible for a minion player, but it then gets compended with players losing their DPS sometimes in it's entirety against against bosses which other players don't lose and then add the insane costs of summoning and the DPS never really recovers where other players have 100% DPS all the time. This isn't the only issue however, minions also have very low damage. While early on it feels like they do a lot of damage as they breeze through the early game, the truth is, they fall off rather quickly and by the time the player enter empowered monoliths, their damage is already struggling.

This is why the necromancer class is so bad right now and why few people bother with them, they just start stuggling too early in the game and they fall off being able to do harder content far earlier than every other class.

These are the core issues than need solving. On a personal level, I gave LE a chance on 1.0 though only because I wanted to test out warlock which was fun if somewhat limited in some aspects. I am not going to give 1.1 a chance. I want to play necromancer and I want to feel like playing a necromancer is fun and rewarding but until minions are nearly immortal and they get a very big damage boost, I don't see myself playing LE.

[nacciw574]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Snip

Careful. The 100 hour troll gonna tell ya play time don't matter. The crusaders are doing the same thing on the official forums as there are quite a few people unhappy with some of the changes there too. Freeze and primalist DR...which only further proves how good DR is.

My main concern is what they did to improve minions (skeletons). I doubt that boost in health will make much difference but I won't paper math it...I'll test it in game.

Is this the thread where someone blocked you? I spit out my coffee it was so funny. Announcing a person being blocked. Just block them and move on ROFL. At this point it's milk. Test the patch in 4 days (till the pinnacle boss) and then come back with findings...which I am sure will be trolled on as they were for "ward and boss DR is fine!!" lol

[Elhazzared]

Oprindeligt skrevet af nacciw574:

Careful. The 100 hour troll gonna tell ya play time don't matter. The crusaders are doing the same thing on the official forums as there are quite a few people unhappy with some of the changes there too. Freeze and primalist DR...which only further proves how good DR is.

My main concern is what they did to improve minions (skeletons). I doubt that boost in health will make much difference but I won't paper math it...I'll test it in game.

Is this the thread where someone blocked you? I spit out my coffee it was so funny. Announcing a person being blocked. Just block them and move on ROFL. At this point it's milk. Test the patch in 4 days (till the pinnacle boss) and then come back with findings...which I am sure will be trolled on as they were for "ward and boss DR is fine!!" lol

I think someone said they would or they might, personally I don't particularly care, if someone doesn't even has anything meaningful to add to the discussion frankly they are doing the world a favor by not reading and as such removing themselves from it.

I will not coment on the DR as I haven't fully read on it and I only discuss balance on the things I am well aware of. As for the minions however, I've just read the patch notes and the skeleton HP on paper isn't bad. From 5 HP to 8 HP per level (same for int point) is actually a big gain per level and most HP increases come in the form of percentiles which means it is going to scale better too. Now, I don't want to do back of the napkin math either because there is variables like what level are you or how much int do you have but I'd expect the HP to be anywhere between 1/3 and 1/2 higher. Probably closer to 1/3.

Is that going to be enough? I don't believe so, I'd say they'd need to at least be half as tanky as the golem before they start to look good. Also their damage is not being touched and as I already said, their damage doesn't looks good as is.

I am conflicted now. On one side I kinda feel this is not gonna be anywhere near enough as i said and I could take some second hand conclusions from watching other people test it, on the other hand, i kinda don't want to have second hand knowledge going forward when I say, this was not enough to solve the problem so I might have to bite that turd sandwish just to gain full awareness of the changes.

[Psojed]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Any proof that HP builds cannot survive the endgame for you is going to be dismissed either as a "bad build" or as bad play. That is not how it works, it's actually the opposite. You need no proof of failure, you need proof of success so show me a HP build doing high corruption.

How it works is real simple.
YOU're presenting a statement: "X is bad", and YOU want it to be recognized as a problem. So, YOU have the burden of proof.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

- Item crafting - The point was that If your idea of an item is "perfect items only", that's a difficulty you created for yourself.

This was in response to me telling you the difficulty of crafting a t20 item. So don't go tacking your words back as it is convinient for your own narrative.

We talked about a T20 item, so I thought you are following the discussion you're discussing in. How silly of me to expect that. So, let me modify the original reply for you:

The point was that If your idea of a T20 item is "perfect items only", that's a difficulty you created for yourself. Other people can and will still use items that aren't perfect. Your decision to only use a subset of all available items doesn't make crafting "bad".

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Crafting a T20 is hard but again I'm going to stress that a T20 is only a T20 if it's on the correct base and only if it has the exact 4 affixes you want and this is excedingly hard.

No and no.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

I have several hundreds of hours (can check now how many as I'm typing) and I've had a grand total of 2 t20 items in the entire time I played and only in this league because market helped aleviate that problem but not to any reasonable degree.

I have ~100 hours. Started playing in 1.0. CoF faction, so no bazaar for me.
My Sorcerer has:
- 5 affix T23 belt with correct base
- 5 affix T22 offhand with correct base
- 5 affix T22 gloves with correct base
- 5 affix T20 necklace with correct base
- 5 affix T20 helmet with wrong base
- 4 affix T21 chestpiece with correct base
- 4 affix T16 boots with correct base
Rings are exalted with some wrong affixes and wrong bases, relic is unique and weapon is a 1LP legendary.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

I said that in an ARPG the way a minion build is meant to work is with minions not dying. Sure, ARPGs have temporary minions and permanent minions and in any that is well done (read, the vast majority of them) permanent minions do not die. It's not that they can't die but rather than it's extremely hard to kill them because developers understand a very basic concept that is.

As far as I know, in every ARPG minions also die regularly. Please provide examples of ARPGs where there are "permanent minions" that do not die.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Minions are the entirety of the DPS of a summoner and if they die the DPS = 0 where other classes have 100% DPS the entire time because you can't remove their ability to attack.

- Obviously you can still attack yourself, so even with no summons your DPS is never zero.
- I gave you a video that clearly shows that summons in LE are not dying on an endgame boss.
- If your summons are dying, it's a build issue, a skill issue, or both.
- Having DPS only come from your summons is the player's choice.
- You're NOT entitled to unkillable summons just because you choose to use only summons.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

I also have no problem with the vid. It's an effective build, not one I enjoy but it's an effective build. However that is caster build and it isn't like you don't understand this either, you are just trying to use an example that you know in no way actually matches what is being discussed because the fact of the matter is, you can't find one but you also can't admit you're wrong like an adult.

This is a great example of your personal incredulity. Because you found something difficult to understand, or are unaware of how it works, you made it out like it's probably not true. First you attacked the video content and now you're assuming my intentions and misrepresenting my statements. Try removing the emotions and sticking to logic next time.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

I at least admit whenb I'm wrong if I'm shown actual proof that I am wrong

You already had multiple people tell you in this topic that something you wrote is false, but unfortunately you didn't retract a single statement, so your actions kinda speak for themselves.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

And you want a proof that making a t20 item is hard. How exactly is anyone meant to do that?

Make a new T20 item. Show us how hard it really is. Prove your point. It is that simple.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

well it's not really possible to estimate since forging potential change as well as the number of usable affixes so it's not like you could do any specific math.

Of course it is possible.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

I have already given you one name but there are more, I just don't remember all of them. Aaron is probably the best or one of the very best minion build guide creators and he is also a well known streamer, also has his builds on youtube. Drop by his stream and ask him where necromancer minion builds can get to in corruption and ask him where non minion builds go. It is that simple.

You misunderstood.
I'm asking for SOURCES. Not names. I am asking you to provide either links to a written text (build guide for example), or the exact time from a video or stream, where your influencer of choice agreed with your claims.

---

Anyway, the patch notes dropped so I now have better things to do than to keep exchanging essays with you. Aaron right? So, ActionRPG. Minion build video of his:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9rdUJli1RA

So Aaron says, and I quote: "all we use is minions, it is awesome for accessibility and it can push over 300 corruption". Aaron here also doesn't have issues with all his minions dying (or DPS somehow going down to 0), and he also doesn't go out of mana.

But I distinctly remember you said "the most well known streamers agree with most of what i said". Care to explain?

[Psojed]

Oprindeligt skrevet af nacciw574:

Careful. The 100 hour troll gonna tell ya play time don't matter. The crusaders are doing the same thing on the official forums as there are quite a few people unhappy with some of the changes there too. Freeze and primalist DR...which only further proves how good DR is.

Playtime indeed does not matter, as the crafting system works the same for a newcomer as well as for a veteran. But considering our previous discussions, I don't expect you to comprehend the logic behind that

Mentioning trolls is quite ironic coming from you :) Try checking your own post history.

[Elhazzared]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

How it works is real simple.
YOU're presenting a statement: "X is bad", and YOU want it to be recognized as a problem. So, YOU have the burden of proof.

The proof exists, there isn't life builds doing high corruption without dying consistently. Every build that doesn't uses ward is normally introduced as being a glass cannon. Other than that, i already explained how it is impossible to try and prove a point on something not working because people like you will just blame it on user error rather than actual being objective.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

We talked about a T20 item, so I thought you are following the discussion you're discussing in. How silly of me to expect that. :happy_creep: So, let me modify the original reply for you:

The point was that If your idea of a T20 item is "perfect items only", that's a difficulty you created for yourself. Other people can and will still use items that aren't perfect. Your decision to only use a subset of all available items doesn't make crafting "bad".

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

No and no.

I guess you are too dense to understand that implicit affixes are a vital part of gearing and that missing one may make a world's difference. In fact not may, almost every single time it does.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

I have ~100 hours. Started playing in 1.0. CoF faction, so no bazaar for me.
My Sorcerer has:
- 5 affix T23 belt with correct base
- 5 affix T22 offhand with correct base
- 5 affix T22 gloves with correct base
- 5 affix T20 necklace with correct base
- 5 affix T20 helmet with wrong base
- 4 affix T21 chestpiece with correct base
- 4 affix T16 boots with correct base
Rings are exalted with some wrong affixes and wrong bases, relic is unique and weapon is a 1LP legendary.

After 3 entire months playing that's what you have? That gear should be what you have around day 3. Well close enough Not really for the 5 affix items but t20 to t22 mostly in the right base, that should be day 3 gear, not day 90 (assuming you're hitting empowered on day 3).

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

As far as I know, in every ARPG minions also die regularly. Please provide examples of ARPGs where there are "permanent minions" that do not die.

PoE permanent minions don't really die. Zombies don't die (not after level 20 or 30 anyway). Specters don't die. Golems don't die. Animated guardian doesn't dies other than the absolute most extreme bosses and only under very specific circunstances. Though of course this is if you are actually a summoner build which actually has some buffs to minions from the tree and items.

Chronicon probably has the absolute best minion system ever implemented. Minions don't need to be summoned, you put them in the action bar and they are automaticaly summoned, if they die they are immediatly resummoned and they don't died that easily. On top of that there is an item that gives them 98% damage reduction making them effectively immortal.

Grim Dawn minions get immortal relatively fast except for skeletons and that is something many people complain about because they shouldn't die just like the rest of the permanent summons.

There you go, 3 examples, one less well known and 2 very well known examples.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

- Obviously you can still attack yourself, so even with no summons your DPS is never zero.
- I gave you a video that clearly shows that summons in LE are not dying on an endgame boss.
- If your summons are dying, it's a build issue, a skill issue, or both.
- Having DPS only come from your summons is the player's choice.
- You're NOT entitled to unkillable summons just because you choose to use only summons.

An actual summoner build has no DPS because the damage that a player could potentially cause is nearly 0 as every thing that is scaled is minion damage which means you do no damage.

Your vid is a caster, I'll tell you however many times I have to and the skeletons are dying all the time, granted because they are being sacrificed to do damage but if it wasn't a caster build they'd be dying just as normal.

If you think summons dying is a build, skill or some other issue, you just revealed how you know nothing about minions in this game and should refrain from giving opinions as if they were facts or as if you knew what you were talking about.

Having DPS only coming from summons in a summoner's build is indeed a player choice, if a player choses to play a summoner, that's wher ethe damage comes from. I see what you are trying to say here but it's about as sensible as saying that doing ranged damage is a players choice in a ranged build.

I am not entitled to immortal minions, but I am entitled to say that the system is bad because it is in fact bad and is driving players away to other ARPGs which actually have things work in a sensible way.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

This is a great example of your personal incredulity. Because you found something difficult to understand, or are unaware of how it works, you made it out like it's probably not true. First you attacked the video content and now you're assuming my intentions and misrepresenting my statements. Try removing the emotions and sticking to logic next time.

I never attacked the vid. I deconstructed your use of the vid as it was clearly unfit for purpose and you clearly know, even if because it was already told to you but you pretend that it isn't true. You live in this world where anything that doesn't conforms to your reality is wrong. That's not how reality works however.

What I said about the vid are 2 main points. First is that it isn't a summoner build, it's a caster build. That is not an attack on the vid or on you for that matter. That is a statement of a fact that it is not representing what you say it does. Second, the guy in the vid has full legendary gear which even you don't have after 90 days of playing. I'm not saying it's unarchievable, I'm saying it's extremely hard and only the vbery best players get to that point, the average player after the 90 days will be like your build, maybe a bit better or a bit worse and as such it's not realistic to tailor expectations of build performance by that vid just due to the gear. Again neither an attack against you or the vid, just stating the reality.

Also please do not talk about logic, you've demonstrated a lack of such to a ludicrous degree and you've seen many people telling me already to ignore you but I guess I am too dumb to do that.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

You already had multiple people tell you in this topic that something you wrote is false, but unfortunately you didn't retract a single statement, so your actions kinda speak for themselves.

I've had a few people saying that and refusing to elaborate because guess what, they know that's a losing battle when evidence is against them. There was a few saying that they disagree and why they disagree and while I respect that they have a different opinion, that doesn't makes what they prefer better for the game, just that they prefer it that way and again, I at least respect that, at least they are honest about it.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

Make a new T20 item. Show us how hard it really is. Prove your point. It is that simple.

To do that I'd have to be playing the game, trying to get the right base, then trying to make it into a T20 and even then that is not conclusive evidence of how hard it is because for actual statistical data you'd want to have a few hundred successful crafts at least and then see the failure vs success. Even then not all items start at the same point, some have more FP, some have more tiers of affix and even then this is not really covering how hard it is to even find the right base. Still, as I said, the fact that in hundreds of hours, I'll say 200 but probably closer to 250+ I have crafted a total of 2 T20 items already speaks for itself. In fact it was a T21 and a T22, both had a t6 exalted roll and one I had to seal a t1 affix. Funny enough, exalted items are easier to craft just due to having higher potentialso a t21/22 is easier than a t20.

Either way, right now I can't really prove this as there is no way I have crafting bases nor enough shards as when I played this league I spent a large amount of shards to get to the point I was at. However it is fair to infer that it took me at least several douzens of attempts, probably in the hundreds to get a single t20.

Again, it's only a t20 if it's a t20 that is part of the build, meaning right base and right affixes. You say it's easy because you don't care and you don't mind playing with a build that has several scuffed defenses and possibly a large loss in the damage as well. You're probably happy with a t20 on the wrong base and 2 wrong affixes too but that isn't a t20, not in that build.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

Of course it is possible.

Ok, let me dismiss that very quickly then. How many attempts does it takes to get a t20 assuming it has to be a specific base and it needs to have the exact 4 affixes wanted.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Psojed:

So Aaron says, and I quote: "all we use is minions, it is awesome for accessibility and it can push over 300 corruption". Aaron here also doesn't have issues with all his minions dying (or DPS somehow going down to 0), and he also doesn't go out of mana.

But I distinctly remember you said "the most well known streamers agree with most of what i said". Care to explain?

I can explain. I actually played that build and I talked to him on stream about it too so great pick.

Aaron has extremely good gear and he is a very good player. The gear that he has can indeed push around 300~ corruption and then it stops there, maybe 350~ tops. I asked him if there was a way to push further and if there was a way to deal with the early gearing issue especially since there are builds that push over 1500 corruption.

His answer is no, around 350 is what the build can realistically push but of course that is enough even for Julra. As for the gearing, yeah it hurts, you just have to keep grinding, minions have the limitation they have.

Also the only way to push higher with minions is using single minion builds like abomination or archmage. It doesn't pushes too much more, but it's a lot easier to manage and a lot easier on the gear, however clear speed suffers significantly and survivability of the player also suffers since you don't have enough minions protecting you and drawing aggro.

And for the sake of completion, I also tried an archmage build and it did indeed do a lot better but the clearing wasn't good. Didn't try abomination but that is because abomination only works in 1 of 2 ways, non decaying abomination which has no damage so it's pointless or decaying which is the good abomination but it's a pain in the ass to have to resummon everything constantly to feed it to the abomination so I didn't bothered with how bad it feels to play.

[nacciw574]

As far as I know, in every ARPG minions also die regularly. Please provide examples of ARPGs where there are "permanent minions" that do not die.

Since this sentence has no context (you folks like to point that out when peeps say "ward or don't get anywhere!" I can debunk it VERY easily (before I read the answer's to this response).

1. With full res, a tanky pet (blight fiend, briarthorn, hellhound) and good piloting you can get away with perm pets not dying. And yeah my almost 5k hours tells me so.

2. Player scaled pets in GD don't die. So....yeah

3. As mentioned, Chronicon: Fire Warlocks also have the Ult Demon pet that will never die. I've never seen that thing ever die. Ever.

And like E said: Grim Dawn minions get immortal relatively fast except for skeletons and that is something many people complain about because they shouldn't die just like the rest of the permanent summons.

"Also please do not talk about logic, you've demonstrated a lack of such to a ludicrous degree and you've seen many people telling me already to ignore you but I guess I am too dumb to do that."

As I said.

Again here is some base logic. Believe the low time played poster or someone who actually put in the time and tested everything to a deep extend, all classes - all masteries...100 hours is a stone throw away from afk'n in town IMO.

Such a clown fiesta...it is completely the opposite spectrum of "ward or bust."

[Elhazzared]

Oprindeligt skrevet af nacciw574:

As I said.

Again here is some base logic. Believe the low time played poster or someone who actually put in the time and tested everything to a deep extend, all classes - all masteries...100 hours is a stone throw away from afk'n in town IMO.

Such a clown fiesta...it is completely the opposite spectrum of "ward or bust."

Yeah but I can't leave it alone. It's not even that I think he is a bad player or that he doesn't knows how to play, but him clearly not having enough knowledge of the systems being discussed and talking as if he knows better than everyone else is the part that is crazy.

Unfortunately, people onm the internet think that they always have to be right, as if they were less of a person for being wrong. Heck, I like being proven wrong when I complain about something, if I lose the reason to complain, I'm pretty happy!

[nacciw574]

I totally get it. For the longest time we had to hear that "everything is fine" but it was never the case. Now, when things are changing, the moment we speak out of context...the correction police turn up in droves.

But hey, I am sure those extra hp/stat (IIRC) will definetely keep skeles alive at 300 corruption. IMO, they just need flat DR...sure they should die but it should also be possible to keep them alive at the cost of dps.

I guess it's Internet + Ambiguity = 1000 IQ

At this point now, thread = milk. Good luck.

[ಠ_ಠ]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

The proof exists, there isn't life builds doing high corruption without dying consistently. Every build that doesn't uses ward is normally introduced as being a glass cannon. Other than that, i already explained how it is impossible to try and prove a point on something not working because people like you will just blame it on user error rather than actual being objective.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/Catseye/character/MeowMeowMeow

12th in the Ladders is a non-ward build. Healing Hands and Abyssal Echoes for sustain, but otherwise a health / armor and endurance build.

I don't know any ARPG where health alone can mitigate enough damage to be able to finish all content. Not even Dungeon Siege.

[Elhazzared]

Oprindeligt skrevet af nacciw574:

I totally get it. For the longest time we had to hear that "everything is fine" but it was never the case. Now, when things are changing, the moment we speak out of context...the correction police turn up in droves.

But hey, I am sure those extra hp/stat (IIRC) will definetely keep skeles alive at 300 corruption. IMO, they just need flat DR...sure they should die but it should also be possible to keep them alive at the cost of dps.

I guess it's Internet + Ambiguity = 1000 IQ

At this point now, thread = milk. Good luck.

I don't think it's enough. Just doing some theory math here, right now they have 100 HP + 5 per level so at level 100 they are 600 HP, this is not counting any int bonus or any % bonus and they literally melt.

A golem has 400 base and 20 per level taking it to 2400 at leel 100 before int or % bonus and it survives quite well. They may still die in harder content but they live long enough that it generaly isn't an issue.

Skeletons now will have a 900 HP pool prior to other bonus to work off. It certainly helps but I don't think it's enough though granted, only testing will tell the full story here.

I'd say they'd need at least 11 HP per level and per int to start approuching a working level but then they'd also need a damage increase as they struggle at high corruption. Part is that they die easily but the other part is that they don't kill fast enough. Of course they don't leech enough HP either. Mages do better on leeching which is why they feel more survivable but even them die relatively easily.

Your DR sugestion could also be a way to do it but ultimately, just increasing their survivability isn't enough, they need a bit of a damage boost and probably the best way would be through allowing them to reach high levels of crit which in turn would also increase their abillity to leech.

Oprindeligt skrevet af ಠ_ಠ:

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/Catseye/character/MeowMeowMeow

12th in the Ladders is a non-ward build. Healing Hands and Abyssal Echoes for sustain, but otherwise a health / armor and endurance build.

I don't know any ARPG where health alone can mitigate enough damage to be able to finish all content. Not even Dungeon Siege. :cubenormal:

Fair, paladins are the tankiest HP class there is so they do better on that aspect than everyone else by a significant margin.

I don't know if arena ladder is a good evaluator of how a build does in high corruption but it is an indication of capability to a degree. I say this because most people don't even bother with arena and some builds are just bad in the arena despite destroying monolith content and vice versa.

Still, the majority of the sustain actually comes from leeching which is a good form of sustain except for one thing. you are only leeching when you are dealing damage which means that until you start doing damage you have a period where you can be killed especially by burst damage. It was one of the things I hated about playing a sorcerer many years back, it did good but if the enemy was allowed even half a second to attack me before I was doing damage that was GG. Granted the paladin looking at everything present is probably able to survive a second of burst damage, maybe even more depending on the corruption level and modifiers.

To also note the gear is very strong though, the average player is unlikely to ever get to that point with the current state of crafting.

[Bludbonez]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

To also note the gear is very strong though, the average player is unlikely to ever get to that point with the current state of crafting.

What is your definition of a "average" player?

[Denis_of_Exile]

god this is pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ post with wasting time

[Psojed]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

The proof exists

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

it is impossible to try and prove

So you cannot prove that HP builds cannot survive endgame, therefore your statement that "Ward is the only way" is false.
One item solved.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

I guess you are too dense

Out of arguments, so ad-hominem it is, eh?

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

After 3 entire months playing that's what you have? That gear should be what you have around day 3. Well close enough Not really for the 5 affix items but t20 to t22 mostly in the right base, that should be day 3 gear, not day 90 (assuming you're hitting empowered on day 3).

You forgot math sir? 100 hours is a little over 4 days played, so I basically fit into your description :)

Saying how many t20 or higher items I should have is quite ironic coming from you, since you said yourself that you only ever crafted two 4 affix T20 good base items. I wonder what were you doing during your 382 hours.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

There you go, 3 examples, one less well known and 2 very well known examples.

Perfect, thanks!

Now take those examples, and make a comparison between LE and those 3 examples, pointing out the differences. For example:
- how easily accesible items with minion stats are.
- how quickly you reach passives with bonuses to minions.
- which bonuses are missing that exist in other games (ie. the 98% DR item).
- if minions are dying, is it everywhere, or in specific places? List those places.
Include your character build planner, and you'll have a nice basis that will both support your claims and it will also give the developers some information to work with :) That's how you get a change going.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

An actual summoner build has no DPS because the damage that a player could potentially cause is nearly 0 as every thing that is scaled is minion damage which means you do no damage.

You just revealed how you know nothing about minions in this game and should refrain from giving opinions as if they were facts or as if you knew what you were talking about.

See? I can do that too.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

You live in this world where anything that doesn't conforms to your reality is wrong. That's not how reality works however.

Hey man, you're projecting again. Wake up.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Second, the guy in the vid has full legendary gear which even you don't have after 90 days of playing.

No, he doesn't have "full legendary gear"
Go rewatch the video. Pay special attention to the part where he says "a reminder, none of this unique gear is mandatory".

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Also please do not talk about logic, you've demonstrated a lack of such to a ludicrous degree and you've seen many people telling me already to ignore you but I guess I am too dumb to do that.

Back to the "many people" that don't exist bullsh!ttery we go :)

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

To do that I'd have to be playing the game, trying to get the right base, then trying to make it into a T20 and even then that is not conclusive evidence of how hard it is because for actual statistical data you'd want to have a few hundred successful crafts at least and then see the failure vs success.

Glad we are on the same page.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Still, as I said, the fact that in hundreds of hours, I'll say 200 but probably closer to 250+ I have crafted a total of 2 T20 items already speaks for itself. In fact it was a T21 and a T22, both had a t6 exalted roll and one I had to seal a t1 affix. Funny enough, exalted items are easier to craft just due to having higher potentialso a t21/22 is easier than a t20.

It speaks about you, not about the crafting system.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Either way, right now I can't really prove this

Understood. You cannot prove that crafting a T20 is hard, therefore your statement that "crafting a T20 is hard" is also false.
Another item off the list.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

You say it's easy because you don't care and you don't mind playing with a build that has several scuffed defenses and possibly a large loss in the damage as well.

Another delusional statement.
Please show us which implicit stats will give me "several scuffed defenses" and "large loss in the damage aswell".

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

You're probably happy with a t20 on the wrong base and 2 wrong affixes too but that isn't a t20, not in that build.

I never asked for your opinion about what I'm happy with.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Aaron has extremely good gear and he is a very good player. The gear that he has can indeed push around 300~ corruption and then it stops there, maybe 350~ tops.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

As for the gearing, yeah it hurts, you just have to keep grinding, minions have the limitation they have.

Adding another Aaron quote:
*shows his "extremely good gear"* "all of these items are currently pennies, or they're not much gold. 50000 gold in either the legacy or the cycle shop, it is very very cheap to purchase said items. Of course you can go CoF if you want to target farm them, it isn't that difficult".

So we have:
- Necro summoner build that can obtain "extremely good gear" (your words)
- Gear that is not difficult to farm for (Aaron's words)
- Gear that can be bought for pennies (Aaron's words)
- This build with this gear can clear the current endgame (Aaron's words)

Since you didn't explain the discrepancy between what Aaron said and what you said, we can assume that your statements about necromancers, minions, mana were all false.
Crossing that one off the list too.

Feel free to not explain the difficulty of gearing discrepancy either.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elhazzared:

Fair, paladins are the tankiest HP class there is so they do better on that aspect than everyone else by a significant margin.

Dude, how bad can you get at this
Paladins aren't the tankiest HP class. And the linked character isn't even a paladin.

[Elhazzared]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Bludbonez:

What is your definition of a "average" player?

That is harder to give an example. The average player is someone who is not really bad at the game skill wise but it's not good either. You'll expect a mistake happening every now and then, you don't expect them to optimise how fast they run a monolith. You know, perfectly average.

Normally there isn't a huge amount of time to play too, like maybe 2 to 4 hours a day due to work.