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討論區規矩與守則
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Though I will agree on the crafting; D4 stole this concept and it's a s*** show right now. With the way it works now, seeing a BiS item is nearly impossible, and I greatly dislike games where BiS gear is a myth. Leaving it up to RNG to progress was a major contribution to the downfall of D3 and soon to be D4.
That being said I probably won't even try the new content because I am sick and tired of playing the casino game with my gear progression. Why people think it's the best thing ever has serious issues. Getting gear shouldn't even be the main focus of the game, the main focus ought to be clearing the content.
But that isn't even MY main issue with this game. My main issue with this game (and Path of Exile) is that there is no incentive to group play. After a while I get really damn bored playing this kind of game by myself. Playing in a group prevents you from progressing in the echoes, along with giving you meager rewards unless you are the host. So why group up when I can get rewarded way more for playing solo? This issue I believe the devs need to address ASAP.
I didn't do necro this time around as there was 0 buffs to necro after all. I did warlock as I said and it was fun but not what I want to play.
Ward isn't too strong, that's the issue, most builds get sub 6K ward and 6K ward is still quite low in my opinion, considering the current content.If builds can get 20K+ ward, sure nerf what makes possible to get to that point but not the ward because most builds that do get ward don't get enough and are still getting nerfed despite not getting enough.
My suggestion will not get you BiS item either but it will give you what I consider the bare minimum power you should be getting out of items.
Gear does have to be one of the main focus though. This is an ARPG, it's not a story fdriven game, character progression is the main focus of these games and that is archieved by leveling up and by gear so gear is important, but it's also improtant that the progression feels good rather than as you said, a roulette.
As for group play I will have to vehemently disagree with you. Most people prefer to play solo. Playing with a friend is a bonus in the fact that you have someone to talk to as you play, it shouldn't be an in game advantage as well otherwise you'll get to the point where you either play in a large group or it isn't worth playing at all which means most people will abandon the game.
Mana regen is not mana regen. If you keep thinking of it like it is what it is named you will keep encountering a "feels bad" situation.
EHG said they do not like long cool downs. They also do not explicitly want to call things like Diablo did, "builders and spenders", so they use mana to accomplish the same goal with a different name.
No, what I said is very much accurate. You don't agree, good for you, go have fun.
Mana regen is mana regen, that is exactly how it is named. You can call a cow whatever you want but a cow is still going to be a cow no matter what you call it.
Also I do not know what EHG wants or not to do with it. Fact is, it's an issue and it needs to be addressed. It was only slightly problematic prior to the nerfs, it became a huge issue after.
I do not disagree with you, however it is what it is. If EHG increased regen it would have a "knock on" effect down the line. You are intended to mitigate small costs with reduction, and if you still have a need alternate to a generator.
There is also a side case where you are supposed to rely on triggered abilities via some form of generator, see Meteor belt. I only bring this up because despite the initial stance, EHG seems to have softened a bit on triggered abilities.
Let me ask you this if you were able to get your mana regen high enough to sustain infinite casts, what would you cast? Some skill with a fair mana cost, loaded up with +cost nodes? Don't you think that would be a nightmare to balance given the scarcity of cool downs?
Ward being the only way to survive end game is in fact false information.
U literally said ward is the ONLY way to survive end game.
U do not need ward to push high corruption. Is ward king yes. Is ward the best way right now to survive end game yes.
Is it NEEDED absolutely not
Fact is it's not the ONLY way as u say
Don't listen to the troll, telling people to read when, in another thread, did the same thing. You have a right to your opinion. I agree they should "go have fun."
LE is an oddity when it comes to defenses IMO. It places less value on resistances, making other routes, such as DR, more effective. Or that's how it feels to me as being nuked by campaign elites just doesn't occur in other most mainstream games. You could argue PoE but that game is just one big obscure monster and usually it's not the mob itself that nukes you but things like Detonate Dead or lack in defenses/knowledge because resistances/armor have huge value. LE classes feel like have niche defenses. You can branch out but it won't be as effective.
Bosses: One shots are okay with well telegraphed attacks. I guess since it is easy to get back to a boss in LE after failing, the system is okay...unless we mention keys...which should be more like PoE's 6 try system due to key drop rate. They should maybe remove arena echos and replace it with a random dungeon key. People would be really happy with that.
I've said it in other threads...if they cap scaling in this game...it will be easier to balance because to have a maximum threshold. GD typically does this by looking at SR/CR clear times and wanting them to remain around 4 1/2 min, with pets seemingly being an okay outlier. Even the highest maps in PoE have limits. D3 showed us that having any sort of infinite scaling is just bad.
Mana: Raven is spot on...I know what mana should mean as well but it is clear that the system behaves like a CD system or feels that way at the very least.
When you say this, you should also clarify what "high corruption is" because what EHG is saying is high corruption does not equal what a player seeing a 1500+ corruption video is showing. Just as you pointed out about "absolutely needing ward."
Edit: Nummy clown rewards, thank you. I will gift them back to the trolls when I see them. Done. You may now continue to scream into the ether.
What do you mean when you say "survive"?
Do you mean heal up between "chip" attacks?
Become immune to death if you walk away from the computer? What about to bosses?
I think you would have a better position if you defined what you mean.
As it stands, with what we know about the current system, and likely the future changes upcoming, the most effective way to increase your EHP is via Ward+DR.
Example: if you have 4000 HP and no other defenses you still die in one hit to a lot of attacks. There are plenty of way to heal up between attacks, assuming they do not kill you outright.
I think, at least I assume, that when people say something like Ward is the only way, is because currently ward is the only way to increase your EHP to the point of survival when faced with those extreme damage attacks.
Sure if you are a miracle worker who can dodge every single attacking coming at you then yes, somehow I doubt most people can however. HP pool size hardly matters, it's there to try and help stop oneshots and even then it cant in many cases. HP regen can get to relatively high values but not to prevent oneshots or very quick bursts of damage. That's why ward is the only thing that works, you get 6K+ ward with very fast regen and some 2 to 3 K life and you are mostly safe, some rarer things can still oneshot you through all that but it's not going to be an issue that occurs often enough and certainly not while mapping unless the corruption is on insane levels as well with a few damage stacks as well.
You can look any builds online and anything not going ward, regardless of how much HP or HP regen it has is marked as a glass cannon for a good reason.
Again, if you are having fun with the game as is, go have fun, I don't feed trolls or people who clearly show no sign of intelligent discourse. So unless you change your approach on how you say things backing them up with facts, then I will just ignore you.
PoE and D4 taking a closer approach is merely taking a better approach than what they did innitially which only says how aweful it is. Fact is, crafting in LE is in a bad state. You also have to take into account what is needed for different games. Where in something like PoE i'd accept a pair of boots with 80+ life, triple res on 30+ per res (or maybe missing one res but having 50+ on a stat) and 30+ movement. In LE the absolute bare minimum I consider is an item being the correct base and with the 4 affixes I want it to have all on tier 5 at least. Both games are different and have different requirements just as their crafting system is different and have different caps too.
Necro is so bad that you don't see anyone playing them other than because they wanted something different or really like minions. You don't see necromancers being able to push even a third of the corruption the top tier builds do, you don't see other builds losing 100% DPS and never being able to recover it during a boss fight because it just keeps being removed by the boss (on top of necromancer builds being FAR more squishy too and relying on having the minions alive to protect them (but of course they don't).
Ward is the only way to push corruption, in fact without extremely good gear you won't even do empowered monos confortably on HP.
So do yourself and the world a favor. Stop posting uther garbage if you don't understand anything about game balance. If you have fun then go have fun, but even top players and the most well known streamers agree with most of what i said. They will only not agree with crafting because like with PoE, they seem to just enjoy the idea that good gear is very esclusive to only a few selected people which is just wrong. Progression is the major point of any ARPG and if you remove the ability to progress for most of the players, well they are going to get tired really quick. Let me back up this claim with facts however.
Right now PoE loses 1/3 to half of it's player base in the first week of of a new season. This is because progression in PoE is atroucious and is made to cater to the top players by making them feel like they are part of an exclusive club. Back before Delve league PoE player base loss was 1/3 after an entire month and you want to know what was the difference? Back then with 10c to 15c you had gear good enough to do all content and because you had the bare minimum to do almost all content on practically no currency, you could keep progressing through the atlas, leveling up and making more currency to keep upgrading your gear which you can't anymore. These are all facts and you can check them very easily on steamdb.
Although not asked to me let me tell you what I mean by surviving. Surviving means being extremely hard to kill under any circunstance. Boss hit you, you survive even if on low HP, mapping and you got hit by an attack with lots of damage? You survive. Being hits by a sudden burst of attacks? Still survive.
Using your 4K HP example. Even with capped resistances on empowered monos (no extra corruption) that is still oneshot range by harder hitting map enemies and it doesn't even lasts a second against a sudden damage burst. That is very, very squishy.
Sometimes, attacks are not dodgeable. Just because you see the circle on the ground it doesn't means you have the time to get out of it and some non telegraphed attacks if you don't have a high ward can still kill you fast, 2 or 3 quick hits and you're done. The problem isn't just that, even non bosses can oneshot you or quickly burst your life down and as a necromancer your minions have no staying power with the exception of the golem. (or the abomination but ♥♥♥ builds are pretty meh).
You can do ok with minion builds, but only to a certain point and the more you push the better the gear you need and it's very hard to get good gear. As I said, as soon as most players enter empowered content they struggle with minion builds.
I think you might have misquoted that first one, not a big deal I just wanted to point it out. Happens to the best of us.
You raise a lot of good points, and as I have said before LE is much closer to Touhou then it is to PoE. The difficulty is seeing the pattern and moving out of the way, as long as you do that you can progress. This is because 99% of the "danger" is condensed into telegraphed attacks designed to one shot you. Are some easier to avoid then others? of course, just as it becomes more difficult the more attacks you have to dodge at the same time.
It is also why ward stacking has gotten so popular, its the effective way to raise your EHP high enough to tank it.
For the record I think its a lazy way of design: balance by one shot, but it is what it is.
First off, current endgame at the time of writing this = 300 corruption Monoliths and T4 dungeons. All classes and all builds can clear 300 corruption and T4 dungeons. There are dozens of youtube videos for every class if you need proof.
More importantly, Ward is NOT being nerfed.
Mechanics of Ward in 1.1 work exactly the same as they did in 1.0. The only confirmed change is the adjustment to Ward Decay formula, which results in LESS decay below 4000 Ward, and MORE decay above 4000 Ward. With this, Ward remains as one of the best choices for EHP.
I agree.
It is easy. I can literally buy an item from a vendor, and make it into a T20.
This sounds less like the class having a problem, and more like your build having a problem.
I'm sure you know this, but the solution to dying minions is to stack minion health. You should aim for 600% minion health, or higher, depending on where you want to stop.
An obvious and silly exaggeration.
Every minion build - build that DOES NEED to resummon their minions once in a while - already presses their keys WAY LESS than any other class by default. The reason is simple, you don't need to resummon minions all the time, but other classes do need to use their skills all the time.
Yeah, that's definitely an issue with your build.
Well, I've seen that korean guy on youtube who's destroying everything at 2500+ corruption, and there's quite a few other Necro videos doing pretty good in the endgame Monoliths, so unless you can prove this, I'm gonna call bullsh!t.
That is certainly not what was said on their post, they said they were changing it for 1.1 so that is not how it works now.
A t20 item only counts as a t20 item if it's the right base and all the 4 affixes are exactly the ones you want.
It's not impossible to do but it's too hard to do and that is the problem. Even with the baazar it is very hard.
Right, all the streamers and good players say the same and I certainly played necromancer more than anything else by a very significant margin, but you certainly know better.
Also 600% is not easy because of the the gearing issues and even 1000% wouldn't make them survivable enough. The only thing that has enough HP is the golem.
The point of minion builds for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase is to not need to need to summon ever again past the initial summoning. it's not about needing to press less times, it's about not needing to press at all. Speaking for myself, I hate the idea of piano builds, it's not fun, it's not engaging, it's just bad and pointless. A non minion build should need 1 or 2 keys, a minion build should need 1 key and only ocasionally in the form of a curse or a buff to the minions.
Try resummoning all your skeletons, you won't have the mana or for the skellies maybe just about enough oh but guess what, they die so fast that before you finish resummoning them all they are all gone. Try summoning the mages and you will not have enough mana to summon them all. Try resummoning your entire army that the boss destroyed and tell me how long it takes and you will never have the whole army again because they are getting killed as they are summoned, not instantly but very fast regardless. So no, there is no mana for that and it's not my build, it's most minion builds. Sure if you do an archmage build you don't have that issue but it's still not good enough of a build.
I call that BS and if you did see, it was a hacked version of the single player version. The absolute best minion build creators all agreed that minions cannot go above 500 corruption on the absolute best gear and that was 500 corruption prior to 1.0 which now would translate to somwhere around 300 tops but again, that is with the absolute best gear. We're talking all legendary gear with LP3 at least.
Realistically, minion builds start struggling at empowered and if they get really good gear (not full legendary BS) they get to around 200 corruption. More than that isn't really going to work at all.
On top of that you need far more skill and take more time to deal with things because of your DPS dying and needing constant resummoning faster than your mana regens.
Edit: I'm not trying to say anyone is necessarily wrong, or at least I'm trying to not. I agree with what you're saying. Changes are going to happen, and we are going to have to change with them.
I quite enjoy games, it is something to look forward to for me, a nice game of chess. I like checkers as well. Few things upset me as much as looking forward to a game of chess as sitting down and finding checkers.
I think its a fair comparison.
People like to say but what about PoE? what about it? I can overcome anything PoE puts in my way with numbers if I decide to. I also have the option of "working the mechanics" as my path to victory. Given that seems, thanks to new changes and new design philosophy, can you really say the same?
Its much like Touhou, accept what the game actually is trying to get you to accomplish not, as is the case with LE, what was presented/marketed.
Edit: nothing has really changed though, games are still farming player engagement. Its not quarters anymore but its still being done. Ms. Pac Man farmed you for quarters via difficulty, LE farms you for engagement via, checks thread topic, one shots and a lack of counter play.