Game is too easy

[Noin Trongaz]

While there is apparently some challenge to be found in the endgame (didn't arrive so far yet) the campaign is way too easy. The last two hours I played only with my mouse, not even needing to touch my keyboard. I just press the button pressed and everything dies in seconds.
It would be nice to have an optional difficulty, otherwise the campaign seems to be just the filler content on the way to endgame, which is a shame.

EDIT:
1. No, I am not hating on the game. I really like the game and this is the reason why I made this topic, because I would enjoy the campaign more if there was an optional difficulty with x5 HP and x2-x3 damage to all enemies. The topic was created for constructive criticism and discussion, not to flex or hate the game.
2. There is no game design reason why campaign has to be this easy and the challenge only happens in empowered monoliths.
3. And NO, I am not using any kind of build I copied from the internet. If I did, I would not be making this topic. I went into the game blind.
4. No, the difficulty is not comparable to other aRPGs. I can't speak of D3 and D4 (didn't play), but the rest I have personally played: Titan Quest, Grim Dawn, Diablo 1, Diablo 2 and Path of Exile, even Torchlight 2 definitely has more difficult campaigns.
5. No, I am not asking for Dark Souls kind of difficulty. All I am saying that one shotting everything for hours is kinda boring (and it is achievable by every class and every subclass in the game).
6. No, I don't think that self-restriction by playing with a naked character or hardcore is fun. I am not a hardcore player by any stretch of imagination. I play games to relax, and it is not often that I find games to be too easy so that it hampers the enjoyment.
7. No, I don't like D4.

[tukkek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtdaby3q6NI

[Noin Trongaz]

Nguyên văn bởi tukkek:

Nguyên văn bởi Stephanos:

the game is easy only in early stages

I've heard this argument thrown around a million times and I know exactly what you are trying to imply: that "everything in the early game" (which you intentionally left vague) actually means "everything from level 1 all the way to the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s".

In other words: everything before end-game.

Which should be obvious to everyone with a brain it does not mean "the early game is easy", like you're trying to spin but "the entire game is easy other than the final levels".

Incredibly manipulative tactic that has been used since the game launched by people who know they can't defend the game fairly and instead need to twist words to try to convince others and themselves that their waifu game is a good one and not easier than Diablo 4.

Newsflash: the full Last Epoch campaign takes 30 hours to beat before reaching end-game, especially for a first-time player who might be doing all side-content. If your argument is "I agree that the game is incredibly easy, not fun and brain-dead for 30 hours before it gets good" , then you're really just saying "the game is too easy and not fun" with extra steps.

Thank you so much for this comment!
A good game should be fun after starting the game, not after 30 hours of being bored. And one-shotting everything IS boring. Even the so-called "difficulty spikes" are only difficult for the people who are not very experienced at aRPGs. If you don't put ALL your points in damage and have enough resistances & HP + some life leech or something like this, Lagon is dies in one try even if you never encountered him before. That is not a good boss design.
I am currently playing through the campaign with a new char and I don't even look at the loot because I know that I don't need it, everything dies anyway. And with level 35 you can start clearing monoliths of level 50, how is that a good difficulty...

[deadbus]

You had to play D4 at start - before first season, there was no way to oneshot anything.

[Tpixel]

I started to find the fun after level 20, all the skills just hit different

[Echo]

Difficulty too easy is partly the reason why people want to skip the campaign when rerolling a character/build. It's definitely an issue.

[tukkek]

What people want you to think early Diablo 4 was like:

Nguyên văn bởi deadbus:

before first season, there was no way to oneshot anything.

What early Diablo 4 was actually like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJWrJMk6a1s

This was supposed to be some of the hardest content in the game, by the way - meant for groups of a dozen players. Not 1 or 2 or 5 - but 12.

Remember that pre-season-1 Diablo 4 loot-goblins were guaranteed to drop stacks of legendaries? It was arguably the easiest the game has ever been.

People in this thread are incredibly out-of-touch with difficulty in video-games if they keep talking about Last Epoch and Diablo 4 as anything but the bottom-tier most casual games in the genre, alongside Minecraft Dungeons.

Which is really something since Elden Ring won basically every single game-of-the-year award just 2 years ago so everyone should know what challenge looks like.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying LE or D4 if you're a casual gamer - other than trying to convince others these aren't uber-casual games.

[RodHull]

Nguyên văn bởi tukkek:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying LE or D4 if you're a casual gamer - other than trying to convince others these aren't uber-casual games.

Yeah honestly its this I find most weird about LE fans. Like broadly speaking I think most Diablo fans or players would concede the game became super casual when D3 released and has remained so ever since. Nothing wrong with that, it can be fun sometimes. But this bizarre dance of trying to pretend LE is some deep game blows my mind. Your stack 'more' damage, move out of telegraphed hit zones, avoid stacking modifiers that counter your fairly simple build - that's it - literally.

[Ghost~Rabit]

hi

[master_chef_002]

then stop playing, we are better off without you

[Noin Trongaz]

Nguyên văn bởi RodHull:

Nguyên văn bởi tukkek:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying LE or D4 if you're a casual gamer - other than trying to convince others these aren't uber-casual games.

Yeah honestly its this I find most weird about LE fans. Like broadly speaking I think most Diablo fans or players would concede the game became super casual when D3 released and has remained so ever since. Nothing wrong with that, it can be fun sometimes. But this bizarre dance of trying to pretend LE is some deep game blows my mind. Your stack 'more' damage, move out of telegraphed hit zones, avoid stacking modifiers that counter your fairly simple build - that's it - literally.

The only reason why I made this topic is that there are many parts of the LE which are genuinly great. The bosses and the general difficulty of the game is what is holding it back. It would profit from power increase being a bit more difficult to achieve, while requiring a bit more attention to play. It is simply too casual for too many people who would have liked it otherwise.
Like the dude who wrote "then stop playing!" to tens of players in a single topic when these people could, in fact, be enjoying the game and by extention support it. This is a fairly daft position, as there is literally NO reason not to add an additional mode considering how many people complain about the issue, something like the new PoE difficulty mode or Grim Dawn Veteran difficulty. Even D4, being an extremely casual game, allows you to start on world level 2. LE needs an optional mode with no telegraphed AoEs from the bosses, less loot or crafting requiring more than just the affix stones, and mobs having x2 or more HP and damage. That would make the game more enjoyable for maybe 20+% of all potential players.

The people so vehemently against any changes are really impossible to understand here, as they seem to not be able to understand that constructive criticism is very important for the developement of the game. The developers should be able to identify what areas of the game need improvement, or the Last Epoch is going to squander the opportunity it had to become a big aRPG. After launch, it had a HUGE influx of players, but lost the majority pretty fast, and the new patch didn't have the expected success.

[RodHull]

Nguyên văn bởi Noin Trongaz:

The people so vehemently against any changes are really impossible to understand here, as they seem to not be able to understand that constructive criticism is very important for the developement of the game. The developers should be able to identify what areas of the game need improvement, or the Last Epoch is going to squander the opportunity it had to become a big aRPG. After launch, it had a HUGE influx of players, but lost the majority pretty fast, and the new patch didn't have the expected success.

Yeah unfortunately the lunatics started running the asylum about 2 years ago. And the devs have a clear (and probably financially sound) strategy of just pandering to people who find POE to difficult and want an easy mode one button farming game they can play on twitch while 'engaging' with fans.

Lead dev and CEO is a marketing guru not a game dev... go figure

[Ravenkid9266]

Nguyên văn bởi tukkek:

Which is really something since Elden Ring won basically every single game-of-the-year award just 2 years ago so everyone should know what challenge looks like.

Elden Ring is the perfect example, but not for the reasons people think. Often you will hear people saying fromsoft games are "hard" this is not true. Games are fundamentally not hard.

Elden Ring is the perfect example of blending player and character progression. If you the player know what you do all you have to do is to do it. Let me solo her.

If you the player cant/wont you can engage with a proper character progression.

Most blend the two.

LE only has one ask of the player, do not stand in bad. To be fair if WoW is anything to go by it is a monumental ask, but it is what it is.

Every other aspect of LE is entirely eclipsed by don't stand in bad. After all these years the developers finally got around to nerfing/removing all aspects that allowed you to sidestep this "design". You will experience the don't stand in bad, and if you want to progress you will learn not to stand in bad. None of your character "progression" will be allowed to mitigate this "design". Or allow you to "flex" that "ability" by progressing past the developer determined corruption level.

Much like the games I think are the closest to LE Touhou.

[Gamer0463]

Nguyên văn bởi Noin Trongaz:

Nguyên văn bởi tukkek:

I've heard this argument thrown around a million times and I know exactly what you are trying to imply: that "everything in the early game" (which you intentionally left vague) actually means "everything from level 1 all the way to the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s".

In other words: everything before end-game.

Which should be obvious to everyone with a brain it does not mean "the early game is easy", like you're trying to spin but "the entire game is easy other than the final levels".

Incredibly manipulative tactic that has been used since the game launched by people who know they can't defend the game fairly and instead need to twist words to try to convince others and themselves that their waifu game is a good one and not easier than Diablo 4.

Newsflash: the full Last Epoch campaign takes 30 hours to beat before reaching end-game, especially for a first-time player who might be doing all side-content. If your argument is "I agree that the game is incredibly easy, not fun and brain-dead for 30 hours before it gets good" , then you're really just saying "the game is too easy and not fun" with extra steps.

Thank you so much for this comment!
A good game should be fun after starting the game, not after 30 hours of being bored. And one-shotting everything IS boring. Even the so-called "difficulty spikes" are only difficult for the people who are not very experienced at aRPGs. If you don't put ALL your points in damage and have enough resistances & HP + some life leech or something like this, Lagon is dies in one try even if you never encountered him before. That is not a good boss design.
I am currently playing through the campaign with a new char and I don't even look at the loot because I know that I don't need it, everything dies anyway. And with level 35 you can start clearing monoliths of level 50, how is that a good difficulty...

campaigns are suppose to be easy. I mean look at path of exile. I rarely have ever died during the poe campaign and pretty much just sail through all 10 acts. And most of the maps are easy until red maps and end game. The only reason you think LE is easy is because they really haven't added much end-game yet. I remember reading about how they only have like 10% of what's planned for end game in the future. Plus if you google the roadmap you can see the massive content they have scheduled for upcoming cycles.

[Mortiaris]

Just reach empowered monolit

[Noin Trongaz]

Nguyên văn bởi Gamer0463:

Nguyên văn bởi Noin Trongaz:

Thank you so much for this comment!
A good game should be fun after starting the game, not after 30 hours of being bored. And one-shotting everything IS boring. Even the so-called "difficulty spikes" are only difficult for the people who are not very experienced at aRPGs. If you don't put ALL your points in damage and have enough resistances & HP + some life leech or something like this, Lagon is dies in one try even if you never encountered him before. That is not a good boss design.
I am currently playing through the campaign with a new char and I don't even look at the loot because I know that I don't need it, everything dies anyway. And with level 35 you can start clearing monoliths of level 50, how is that a good difficulty...

campaigns are suppose to be easy. I mean look at path of exile. I rarely have ever died during the poe campaign and pretty much just sail through all 10 acts. And most of the maps are easy until red maps and end game. The only reason you think LE is easy is because they really haven't added much end-game yet. I remember reading about how they only have like 10% of what's planned for end game in the future. Plus if you google the roadmap you can see the massive content they have scheduled for upcoming cycles.

I mean, seriously? You are saying that PoE and LE have similar difficulty?

I have played both. The fundamental difference between PoE and LE is that in LE, the crafting and leveling system is made in such a way, that it is extremely easy to make a build that one-shots everything, without the need for any special items or any luck. You can combine abilities that they trigger each other and use the crafting system to make sure that every single item gives you what you need. In PoE, making a build with which you can run around and everything dies by itself is actually really hard and requires deep knowledge of the game, you need to farm for items etc. In PoE, getting an item which perfectly fits your build is a huge luck and makes you feel good.
In LE, you can simply put the needed stats on every items you have, and the modifiers are insane. Just put +60% to +100% damage on every item by level 50 and any ability you use kills any boss in 10 seconds. Like I am currently level 66, running monoliths which are level 75, ignore all the loot which drops and it takes 2 seconds to kill any rare, while normal mobs die by themselves. The only way to die is when you stop attention and stand in a clearly marked AoE area. And this all while I tried to make the most nonsensical build ever which uses every type of elemental damage and debuff in the game, I tried to combine as much stuff as possible just for fun. But in the end, simply by putting 5 points in the second row talent of the spec which is not even my main spec I get frost aura which deals 1-2k damage per second to all the mobs around me, while they have around 2-2,5k HP even while being 9 levels above me, get frozen and die. All of this despite having played the game only for 100 hours, never watched a single video or guide about the game and not being so good at aRPGs in general.
For comparison, my first characters in PoE had problems even finishing the campaign. I needed to read the Wiki to understand what abilities combine with which, sometimes I would get stuck and need to upgrade my equipment to progress etc.
Playing both games with no guides or outside information, I would rate PoE to be around 5 to 10 times more difficult than the LE. It is still more difficult than the LE for me, and I played PoE for almost 1k hours and LE for 100.

Compared to all the aRPGs I have played extensively (Titan Quest, Diablo 2, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile), Last Epoch is the easiest by far.