Spine of Malatros

[Karnaij]

Is it just me or is this not working right, the flamewhip says it takes all from the skill tree but does not.. I get no curses no chaos orbs no bone curse aoe's, my dots are at a very low stack. Just wondering if its ment do me useless.

[MarsiForever]

If you hold ALT when you hover over the item it says everything on the blue tooltip that is needed to understand the effect. I saw many people online (while I was looking for ideas for the build) come up with the wildest assumptions but it is NOT a bug and works like it is shown there:

The whip profits from every node where it says "The fissure..." / "Chthonic Fissure..." and "...initital hit" / "...initial impact".

Every node where it begins with "Spirits...", "The spirits' ..." or "When spirits..." does not apply. Period.

For example:

#1: The "increased rate of Spirit spawn" (Stygian Current) still works because the sentence begins with "The fissure...".

#2: The node where it says that the fissure deals "+25% damage but looses ability to spawn spirits" (Deepest Ravine) effectively removes the tentacles because it begins with "Chthonic Fissure...".

#3: Spawning Chaos Bolts (Chaotic Rupture) does not work because the node begins with "Spirits...".

Also, the whips are by default a "fire" "spell" (I haven't tried to change the element in the fissure skill tree) and therefore don't scale with damage over time.

EDIT: As tested by ShivOr and then me the whip alone does not scale with curse damage. I saw no changes in damage by adding/removing 34 intelligence so it might not scale with that too.

[Karnaij]

it says fissures skill tree applys to whips from all sources but my curses that it apply do not apply, my bleed does not apply, my poison does not apply.

[Shiv0r]

pretty sure its bugged and it does not scale with anything in the tree. it's also odd that Deepest Ravine seems to remove the whips even though its not any long related to spirits, same with the spirits frequency.

[MarsiForever]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Karnaij:

it says fissures skill tree applys to whips from all sources but my curses that it apply do not apply, my bleed does not apply, my poison does not apply.

Sorry I meant the blue tooltip when you hover over the item and hold ALT. I can only assume what they mean with "From all sources" but the blue tooltip explains what it does.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shiv0r:

pretty sure its bugged and it does not scale with anything in the tree. it's also odd that Deepest Ravine seems to remove the whips even though its not any long related to spirits, same with the spirits frequency.

Not sure if you read my answer above but I am playing my fire build of the weapon and it is working like I said and how it is explained on the item.

I'm going to edit my answer so that the node names are there and the tooltip thingy is clear.

[Shiv0r]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shiv0r:

pretty sure its bugged and it does not scale with anything in the tree. it's also odd that Deepest Ravine seems to remove the whips even though its not any long related to spirits, same with the spirits frequency.

Not sure if you read my answer above but I am playing my fire build of the weapon and it is working like I said and how it is explained on the item.

I'm going to edit my answer so that the node names are there and the tooltip thingy is clear.

Yes but it doesen't have anything to do what i said. Like for example Deepest Ravine, should give you the damage bonus but ignore the spirit related stuff, cause its a whip and no longer a spirit. Spirit frequency is spirit related so it should not interact at all with it even tho fissure is inside of the name, cause same its not a spirit its a whip.

Im using this sword too and in my observation its bugged , i have 70 % critchance and 500& crit multiplier and my Wandering Spirits do more damage than the whip.
Even if the interaction with the spirits are intentional, how they describing is than missleading.

I enabled damage numbers too see how much damage they are doing freaking 20 damage if they dont crit and if they crit they do around 200.
My Ghostflame with just 76% necro damage and 70% fire damage increase and the tree that gives me direct damage with it does around 200-300 damage without any crit does more damage than a wisp which has 500 crit multiplier and around 350% poison damage.

[MarsiForever]

You typed something completely different earlier. Thanks for rephrasing that.

The item has clear rules for the spirit and fissure nodes and it follows them logically and correctly as I explained above.

70% global crit chance? Poison build with Acid Skin and Acidbane? Sounds interesting. Haven't played around with anything other than fire. The damage of that is... not really great. The damage nodes for Torment make a way stronger damage over time build. But that doesn't stop me from building full direct damage fire whip.

Changes in crit multiplier changed the damage of my whip accordingly though. Did you skill any curse damage in the passives and your idols? Whip does 20 damage by default (according to lastepochtools). Any multipliers you add to that are nothing without that base damage. When I skilled out of those, my whip was literally a wet noodle!

[MarsiForever]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shiv0r:

I enabled damage numbers too see how much damage they are doing freaking 20 damage if they dont crit and if they crit they do around 200.

Okay no base damage to curses then^^ Did you convert the fissure to poison (Valley of Defilement) and it still does only 20 damage? Then the whip is still fire :S If so it sadly will not work with any other damage type :(

If you want it to do damage you need the base damage to curses no matter what + Wither. Probably clashes with your entire build then. But beware... I did everything I can and it barely is the best damage next to my support skills. ~15% crit chance + Acid Skin + 700% crit multi. It is not worth going for crit chance in fire build. Maybe you can make it work with that 70% crit chance on poison if the fire to poison conversion works o7

Also I believe spirit damage on the fissure scales with intelligence only at 25% efficiency (ALT on fissure hover). So intelligence scaling does almost nothing for the whips. If the conversion works you need poison damage % instead.

[Shiv0r]

Diposting pertama kali oleh MarsiForever:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Shiv0r:

I enabled damage numbers too see how much damage they are doing freaking 20 damage if they dont crit and if they crit they do around 200.

Okay no base damage to curses then^^ Did you convert the fissure to poison (Valley of Defilement) and it still does only 20 damage? Then the whip is still fire :S If so it sadly will not work with any other damage type :(

If you want it to do damage you need the base damage to curses no matter what + Wither. Probably clashes with your entire build then. But beware... I did everything I can and it barely is the best damage next to my support skills. ~15% crit chance + Acid Skin + 700% crit multi. It is not worth going for crit chance in fire build. Maybe you can make it work with that 70% crit chance on poison if the fire to poison conversion works o7

Also I believe spirit damage on the fissure scales with intelligence only at 25% efficiency (ALT on fissure hover). So intelligence scaling does almost nothing for the whips. If the conversion works you need poison damage % instead.

Yes i converted it to poison and it still does only 20 dmg without any invest in curse base dmg. The Tag is also changing to poison. If it dosen't convert the damage to poison than its definitely bugged, cause this should be possible,its applying to the fissure initial hit.

According to this site it has 100% efficiency with intelligence: https://www.lastepochtools.com/skills/flame_whip

https://www.lastepochtools.com/skills/chthonic_fissure

The initial Hit of fissure is: 5 fire damage
flame whip: is 20 fire damage

if i hit someone with the fissure it does 1k - 1.5k crit damage (depending on stack of poison, is the enemy inside of aura of decay etc)

my whip doing crits around 218 crit damage now (and 32 base damage)

i took both base curse damage nodes now to test it aswell it barley does anything,

It has 400% more base damage than the fissure but does 500-600% less damage than the fissure. it clearly is not scaling at all. Also dont forget you getting 61 - 72 flat spelldamage from the sword it also does not interact with that as it seems.

My assumptions is that the skill tree is not appyling to the flame whip. pyrochasm and fissure of wrath alone should boost the damage.

Edit the Ininal hit of Fissure can go up till 5k after some testing. Sometimes im hittng with the whip around 500 dmg.

[Shiv0r]

Diposting pertama kali oleh MarsiForever:

You typed something completely different earlier. Thanks for rephrasing that.

The item has clear rules for the spirit and fissure nodes and it follows them logically and correctly as I explained above.

70% global crit chance? Poison build with Acid Skin and Acidbane? Sounds interesting. Haven't played around with anything other than fire. The damage of that is... not really great. The damage nodes for Torment make a way stronger damage over time build. But that doesn't stop me from building full direct damage fire whip.

Changes in crit multiplier changed the damage of my whip accordingly though. Did you skill any curse damage in the passives and your idols? Whip does 20 damage by default (according to lastepochtools). Any multipliers you add to that are nothing without that base damage. When I skilled out of those, my whip was literally a wet noodle!

The Rules might be true but than the wording is bad and confusing.

"Chthonic Fissures cast Flame Whip instead of releasing Spirits"

"Chthonic Fissure's Skill Tree applies to Flame Whip from all sources
Nodes that affect the fissure and initial hit apply to flame whip, but nodes that only affect the spirits do not."

Yes the Node interacts with skill referencing fissure in it, but spirit is no longer part of the skill it's a whip people assuming of course than it will ignore the spirit interaction still( which in my opinion makes also more sense).

[MarsiForever]

Ooooh so the 25% effectiveness for the spirits is not taken to the fire whip?! That is good to know. Didn't read that on the fire whip itself Oo

You got me curious about the rest. I am testing again right now and not going with what I saw before. Editing later.

EDIT:

I tested damage on the last doll at the arena. Only whip hits, no fissure on target. Adding and removing gear with specific damage types and/or changing nodes in the warlock skill tree.

Spell dmg (changed 8 flat & ~160%): worked
Fire / Ele dmg (changed ~200%): worked

Intelligence (changed 34): NO DIFFERENCE SEEN, only fissure
Curse dmg (changed ~53 flat & 103%): NO DIFFERENCE SEEN, only fissure

Ignite Chance.............. adds flat spell dmg to the fissure due to "Fissure of Wrath" in the fissure skill tree. Half of your global ignite chance. Adding / Removing the 8 points of "Infernal Lash" (+104% global ignite chance -> +52 flat spell dmg) on the warlock passive skill tree was BY FAR the biggest damage increase/decrease.

From what I tested I would now use NO curse damage at all and use the intelligence nodes on skill tree instead to get damage to all my skills. Then add global ignite chance > flat fire/ele/spell dmg > fire/ele/spell %. Penetration as well.

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I did not test the curse damage before. I saw the numbers and feel change but that was due to the fissure hit/dot damage increasing. Sorry I said curse damage works. Intelligence though seems to NOT work as well or it is the 25% efficiency.

Going to edit my first answer.