Death= Zero rewards = Bad game design

[Alcovitch]

I think the idea that if you die ONCE, in a game where you can randomly be 1 shotted, and you lose all your map progress, all the dropped items in the map, your monolith rewards, your dungeon key, progress and rewards is completely broken.

This games underlying poor structure where it can't save a map in progress, even in multiplayer (you come back and items are gone) is just flawed.

I did a month with a friend once, where as I was porting out I saw an item drop. I ported back to my friend to find all the items had vanished, when i ported back out of the Monolith, my Monolith rewards were wiped as well because it didn't keep that in memory. Just stupid.

Trying to do Soulfire Bastion, spend 20 mins in there, get 1 shotted by something, lose the key, lose progress, get disconnected from the server, every time. it's a big FU to the player and ones time.

NO other ARPG handles death like this an no other ARPG that I can think of is so poorly implemented with how the map mechanics work. You cant even port to town to sell and come back, it resets the whole map.

Fix your game.

[Steel]

There's no exp penalty for death (unlike PoE), there's no penalty AT ALL for dying outside monoliths and dungeons, so it's fine. Echoes are very short, you are not investing resources to run one (unlike PoE), and you are not even expected to clear a full map to get the most out of it (guess).

It's really not nearly a big of a punishment as you make it sound. Move on to the next echo, don't even think about it, you lost nothing of note.

[SpiralRazor]

引用自 Quillithe：

引用自 KenpoJuJitsu3：

The map resetting on leaving/portaling/etc. is not a design choice, it is a developer acknowledged bug they are working on.

That's not what they're talking about - losing monolith rewards is clearly by design because you only lose them on death specifically.


And yeah...you lose rewards if you die once.

But monoliths are mostly pretty small and only take a few minutes - just launch another one.

Dungeons are a bit longer but still not super long, but keys are super common in monoliths and a penalty for dying is normal design. It's a MUCH lighter penalty than PoE or something, no XP loss.

bro....i would MUCH rather take xp loss

[__MaX__]

引用自 Alcovitch：

I think the idea that if you die ONCE, in a game where you can randomly be 1 shotted, and you lose all your map progress, all the dropped items in the map, your monolith rewards, your dungeon key, progress and rewards is completely broken.

NO other ARPG handles death like this [...]

Fix your game.

Excluding persistence or potential bugs. Which in some RARE cases can be a problem ( a key or a unique drop )... this is actually false : )

PoE has the same exact death penalty in Delve. I lost a 10 divine drop to a death on a mini-boss in Delve. Several Exalts on mines paths in the dark... a couple of players lost a mirror (which is kind of like winning the lottery in PoE) in the mines.

If you die, you loose the fuel... I bet if you we dig a bit more in ARPGs, you can find pretty much everytime a case where the game asks for you to succeed or loose some or your "investment/drop".

If loosing a couple of unique drop is a problem for you, then you might be farming wrong. I drop far more Uniques and Exalted through Prophecies than I ever do naturally in the maps. Missing a unique does not even make me flinch if I die before I can grab it. Echoes and dungeons are cleared so fast that it's not really a real problem.

And for persistence, this is indeed weird, but the design of the economy makes it pretty much useless. Reaching ~75ish you will drop piles of 100 to 200 gold often in an echo. And above, way more than that. A really nice Exalt sells for what? 300... and most yellow for 50 to 100. Let's say you would fill your inventory with only daggers... the gold you would gather in a big echo would be far higher than what you're gonna cash selling the daggers.

So beyond bugs, which as usual, like in any game... sucks and can be frustrating. The selling activity is useless in LE, and the death "penalty" is pretty much non-existent if you know how to farm ... and you don't think that the two uniques you did not loot before your death were the best build enablers you'd ever seen.

[Tujiak28]

wait for easy mode to be implemented

[DutchDoofus]

引用自 Alcovitch：

I think the idea that if you die ONCE, in a game where you can randomly be 1 shotted, and you lose all your map progress, all the dropped items in the map, your monolith rewards, your dungeon key, progress and rewards is completely broken.

more rambling...

I should fix my skills..

Jup your right...

[KenpoJuJitsu3]

引用自 Quillithe：

引用自 KenpoJuJitsu3：

The map resetting on leaving/portaling/etc. is not a design choice, it is a developer acknowledged bug they are working on.

That's not what they're talking about - losing monolith rewards is clearly by design because you only lose them on death specifically.

See below. This is the part I'm commenting on. The monolith part is something else, and there's a reason I never mentioned monoliths myself.

引用自 Alcovitch：

This games underlying poor structure where it can't save a map in progress,

[Casul Gamer]

Right now my monolith rewards are mostly trash so I don't mind losing those, but needed a key for arena/dungeons do suck. I think you should get as many attempts as you want, but then the key is consumed when you complete it.

[Psycha]

引用自 Fuerst Aid：

So you play HC and then whine about it because you die and can't play that character anymore?
Nice logic mate.

Nice bait, but its not hardcore. You die once in a echo and lose the reward and any loot dropped. Not your char.

[Fuerst Aid]

引用自 PsychaChi：

引用自 Fuerst Aid：

So you play HC and then whine about it because you die and can't play that character anymore?
Nice logic mate.

Nice bait, but its not hardcore. You die once in a echo and lose the reward and any loot dropped. Not your char.

And that's all?
It is atleast somewhat exciting, that there is a chance to "lose" something.
The endgame is boring enough at it is right now...

[Athos42]

Im kind of OK with the death penalty in Monoliths, but for dungeons it's way too harsh to only have one try and that's it, they are just too long for this. If you die to a boss you cannot really learn what just happened because your run is over.

Also, I'd prefer if I could use a town portal to sell loot while doing monoliths. There is so much loot and you can pick up only a fraction of it, even if you are using filters. I guess I'll need to filter out rare items, too, soon.

[Quillithe]

引用自 Athos42：

Im kind of OK with the death penalty in Monoliths, but for dungeons it's way too harsh to only have one try and that's it, they are just too long for this. If you die to a boss you cannot really learn what just happened because your run is over.

Also, I'd prefer if I could use a town portal to sell loot while doing monoliths. There is so much loot and you can pick up only a fraction of it, even if you are using filters. I guess I'll need to filter out rare items, too, soon.

IMO, don't bother selling items.

If you look at how much they sell for (outside of uniques and set items) none of them are worth the time to bring back to town and sell compared to just getting more gold drops, because a single gold drop is worth several items of gold.


It's a thing to get used to compared to some other ARPGs - I remember back in D2 where enemies would drop like 10 gold when items sold for 1k lol

[Casul Gamer]

引用自 Quillithe：

引用自 Athos42：

Im kind of OK with the death penalty in Monoliths, but for dungeons it's way too harsh to only have one try and that's it, they are just too long for this. If you die to a boss you cannot really learn what just happened because your run is over.

Also, I'd prefer if I could use a town portal to sell loot while doing monoliths. There is so much loot and you can pick up only a fraction of it, even if you are using filters. I guess I'll need to filter out rare items, too, soon.

IMO, don't bother selling items.

If you look at how much they sell for (outside of uniques and set items) none of them are worth the time to bring back to town and sell compared to just getting more gold drops, because a single gold drop is worth several items of gold.


It's a thing to get used to compared to some other ARPGs - I remember back in D2 where enemies would drop like 10 gold when items sold for 1k lol

I tried playing D2 for the first time a year or two and got baited into going back and forth to town to sell items. Kind of drove me crazy how little inventory space I had. I guess veterans of D2 know not to pick up in 90% of the items, but it's kind of dumb. I'd rather less items dropped, but they were better quality and had more value.