Passive respec cost

[Drosta]

Seems way too high and should be tuned down. It cost me a few thousand gold just to remove one point in something last night. I don't know if you get so much more gold at the top heavy end of the leveling curve or something. But I was led to believe going into this that respec was pretty forgiving in last epoch. And it was, when I was like level 20. At level 70 that felt needlessly punishing. It's gonna cost my character his life savings to try something new? Why? I thought gaming as a whole had kind of learned it's lesson on punishing players for experimentation and moved away from that model over the years. I'd love to hear that at higher level it's basically a non issue because you're swimming in gold so feel free to give me that to look forward to if that's the case.. but even then I still think the post is fair to make because at the mid-early endgame it feels like the cost is way too high.

[pepipapa100]

I do not get it..Do you respeccing completely in every hour or so?

[Drosta]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von IvoryTemplar:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drosta:

Seems way too high and should be tuned down. It cost me a few thousand gold just to remove one point in something last night. I don't know if you get so much more gold at the top heavy end of the leveling curve or something. But I was led to believe going into this that respec was pretty forgiving in last epoch. And it was, when I was like level 20. At level 70 that felt needlessly punishing. It's gonna cost my character his life savings to try something new? Why? I thought gaming as a whole had kind of learned it's lesson on punishing players for experimentation and moved away from that model over the years. I'd love to hear that at higher level it's basically a non issue because you're swimming in gold so feel free to give me that to look forward to if that's the case.. but even then I still think the post is fair to make because at the mid-early endgame it feels like the cost is way too high.

1. Unspec 1 point in a mastery
2. Spec said one point into whatever you want on your base class
3. Unspec the one point you don't like in base class
4. Spec that point back into mastery

It's not that hard and it doesn't cost that much.

you're assuming
1. I knew enough about the game going in that I didn't make any mistakes deeper down the tree.
.2 that I only want to change 1 or 2 points. What if I want to take 70 points out of one mastery and put them all into another.

I would agree with you at face value that if all you're looking for is a little tweaking then it's pretty negligible. But my argument comes from the cost to fully respec.

I'll also address the other comment, that POE is worse. Yeah, it is. and Im certainly glad it isn't as bad as that where you can actually brick your character and have to start over. that kinda goes without saying as being a more punishing system. But I dont think that something being worse should prevent discussion on what can be better in somewhere else.

[Knavery]

Here's an idea... Research what you're build is going to be so you don't have to fully respec. If you do that, you'll only be respecing a few points here and there. It's all good and fine going in blind, but don't complain about the cost to respec if you do. I'm new to the game and never had a problem with it.

[JustSmile]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knavery:

Here's an idea... Research what you're build is going to be so you don't have to fully respec. If you do that, you'll only be respecing a few points here and there. It's all good and fine going in blind, but don't complain about the cost to respec if you do. I'm new to the game and never had a problem with it.

But that is the problem. The game actively promotes looking a build up and blindly following a guide, and punishes experimenting on your own and being creative. That's bad.

[tankanidis]

costs like 20 gold to respec a point at low levels doesn't it?

[Grimzy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JustSmile:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knavery:

Here's an idea... Research what you're build is going to be so you don't have to fully respec. If you do that, you'll only be respecing a few points here and there. It's all good and fine going in blind, but don't complain about the cost to respec if you do. I'm new to the game and never had a problem with it.

But that is the problem. The game actively promotes looking a build up and blindly following a guide, and punishes experimenting on your own and being creative. That's bad.

Not really....i made my build for myself and it performs better than suggested ones out there. Granted I did look up builds from others to understand what stats to prioritize but thats about it.
You can literally do any build and you can get through high corruption mono's with it.
You would really have to not understand the class you play to fail at building it.

[Womp Womp]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drosta:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von IvoryTemplar:

1. Unspec 1 point in a mastery
2. Spec said one point into whatever you want on your base class
3. Unspec the one point you don't like in base class
4. Spec that point back into mastery

It's not that hard and it doesn't cost that much.

you're assuming
1. I knew enough about the game going in that I didn't make any mistakes deeper down the tree.
.2 that I only want to change 1 or 2 points. What if I want to take 70 points out of one mastery and put them all into another.

I would agree with you at face value that if all you're looking for is a little tweaking then it's pretty negligible. But my argument comes from the cost to fully respec.

I'll also address the other comment, that POE is worse. Yeah, it is. and Im certainly glad it isn't as bad as that where you can actually brick your character and have to start over. that kinda goes without saying as being a more punishing system. But I dont think that something being worse should prevent discussion on what can be better in somewhere else.

So what you want is actions with no consequences. Got it.

[Knavery]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JustSmile:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knavery:

Here's an idea... Research what you're build is going to be so you don't have to fully respec. If you do that, you'll only be respecing a few points here and there. It's all good and fine going in blind, but don't complain about the cost to respec if you do. I'm new to the game and never had a problem with it.

But that is the problem. The game actively promotes looking a build up and blindly following a guide, and punishes experimenting on your own and being creative. That's bad.

You bring up a good point.

[Biff]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Drosta:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sdshadow:

Later on gold is not an issue anymore. I can fully respec 5 times a day and I would gain millions of gold regardless.
It would be better if reskilling passives would cost nothing.
At start at which you experiment, the gold is not so infinite.
Later it doesnt even matter if it costs gold or not.
So the complete mechanic is not really something good for every player.

this is what i was thinking too. It just needlessly penalises the pre-end game player for wanting to try new things and doesn't make much sense to me. Pointing to an earlier comment in this thread for example, if it isn't an issue because you make so much gold anyway then why does the system need to exist at all?

This isn't call of duty. You aren't supposed to be able to change "load outs" on a whim.

[Dojan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tankanidis:

But coming from POE where you were basically forced to make a new character if you got your build wrong (faster to level a new character then farm for materials to re-spec your current one if its badly made, ie. didn't follow a guide strictly)

This is a fair opinion to have, but I feel like it's a poor excuse for bad game design. I genuinely do not get why we're punished for changing our builds. The fact that we can't change our mastery specialisation is utterly baffling - I don't want to have to make 15 characters to experience all of the different masteries.

I genuinely don't care if the gold cost becomes insignificant later on - what does the gold cost on respeccing add to your experience? Do you feel a sense of accomplishment when you pay gold to change your passives?

Do you feel rewarded when you have to re-level a skill?

I don't. It fluffs the game out, which I'd gather is the purpose of it, but it's honestly a really poor reason to have it.

[Biff]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JustSmile:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knavery:

Here's an idea... Research what you're build is going to be so you don't have to fully respec. If you do that, you'll only be respecing a few points here and there. It's all good and fine going in blind, but don't complain about the cost to respec if you do. I'm new to the game and never had a problem with it.

But that is the problem. The game actively promotes looking a build up and blindly following a guide, and punishes experimenting on your own and being creative. That's bad.

It doesn't promote looking up a guide at all. You did that yourself. In fact it's much more forgiving than most ARPGs since pretty much any skill can be made viable. At no point does it leave you stuck to look up how to progress.

[Biff]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dojan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tankanidis:

But coming from POE where you were basically forced to make a new character if you got your build wrong (faster to level a new character then farm for materials to re-spec your current one if its badly made, ie. didn't follow a guide strictly)

This is a fair opinion to have, but I feel like it's a poor excuse for bad game design. I genuinely do not get why we're punished for changing our builds. The fact that we can't change our mastery specialisation is utterly baffling - I don't want to have to make 15 characters to experience all of the different masteries.

I genuinely don't care if the gold cost becomes insignificant later on - what does the gold cost on respeccing add to your experience? Do you feel a sense of accomplishment when you pay gold to change your passives?

Do you feel rewarded when you have to re-level a skill?

I don't. It fluffs the game out, which I'd gather is the purpose of it, but it's honestly a really poor reason to have it.

You aren't being "punished". Decisions having weight is a freaking part of RPGs. You have a path to repec already but you want to trivialize the mechanic to a damn win button.

[Cocofang]

I don't know why passive respec for gold of all things is an issue. You hoard gold anyway.

If anything skill respec is irritating because since you have no loadouts even trying a different skill means dumpstering one of your main ones, leveling the new one up just to unlock necessary skill passives and if you don't like it you have to go back and play with a gimped skill once again. And the last few levels for sure take much longer than farming gold.

I'm fine with throwing gold at passives all day but the fact that gameplay enabling/changing skill passives have to be grinded out with no way of preserving previous progress or saving up to a skill-switch is an issue.

[Dojan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Biff:

You aren't being "punished". Decisions having weight is a freaking part of RPGs. You have a path to repec already but you want to trivialize the mechanic to a damn win button.

Sure, make an easy mode then, or alternatively limit this behavior to the hardcore mode. I like to enjoy the game, and part of that is to experiment with builds. In game.

If I wanted to theorycraft in excel I'd just take overtime at work, thanks. It pays better too.

[Locklave]

How are you that high level and aren't sitting on piles of extra gold? Unless you are constantly doing massive respecs and gambling on items I have no clue how 1 respec is a problem.

80k is nothing. Unless you are doing it all the time. In which case you are the problem not the cost.