Passive respec cost

[Drosta]

Seems way too high and should be tuned down. It cost me a few thousand gold just to remove one point in something last night. I don't know if you get so much more gold at the top heavy end of the leveling curve or something. But I was led to believe going into this that respec was pretty forgiving in last epoch. And it was, when I was like level 20. At level 70 that felt needlessly punishing. It's gonna cost my character his life savings to try something new? Why? I thought gaming as a whole had kind of learned it's lesson on punishing players for experimentation and moved away from that model over the years. I'd love to hear that at higher level it's basically a non issue because you're swimming in gold so feel free to give me that to look forward to if that's the case.. but even then I still think the post is fair to make because at the mid-early endgame it feels like the cost is way too high.

[Rex Vortex]

I'm not sure what this issue is. You can amass 100,000+ gold in a handful of monolith runs. Especially if you stick to the gold drop ones. Doesn't take much time at all. There's not many gold sinks in Last Epoch. The only three I know of are buying shattered runes, respecing characters, and the reward room in Lightless Arbor. I just tested a respec on my level 85 character and it only cost 560 for the first one.

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by Rex Vortex:

I'm not sure what this issue is. You can amass 100,000+ gold in a handful of monolith runs. Especially if you stick to the gold drop ones. Doesn't take much time at all. There's not many gold sinks in Last Epoch. The only three I know of are buying shattered runes, respecing characters, and the reward room in Lightless Arbor. I just tested a respec on my level 85 character and it only cost 560 for the first one.

A full respec at around level 70 - something you must do if you need to swap any base class points since you can't have a single point in any spec without 20 in base class - is about 80k. Sure, that's not much if you've been grinding for days and are not spending gold on shattering much any more, but it's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fortune when you just got there, you need to shatter a load of gear, and the gold node in a monolith gives you less than 10k.

[Drosta]

Originally posted by JustSmile:

Originally posted by Rex Vortex:

I'm not sure what this issue is. You can amass 100,000+ gold in a handful of monolith runs. Especially if you stick to the gold drop ones. Doesn't take much time at all. There's not many gold sinks in Last Epoch. The only three I know of are buying shattered runes, respecing characters, and the reward room in Lightless Arbor. I just tested a respec on my level 85 character and it only cost 560 for the first one.

A full respec at around level 70 - something you must do if you need to swap any base class points since you can't have a single point in any spec without 20 in base class - is about 80k. Sure, that's not much if you've been grinding for days and are not spending gold on shattering much any more, but it's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fortune when you just got there, you need to shatter a load of gear, and the gold node in a monolith gives you less than 10k.

Nailed it

[sdshadow]

Later on gold is not an issue anymore. I can fully respec 5 times a day and I would gain millions of gold regardless.
It would be better if reskilling passives would cost nothing.
At start at which you experiment, the gold is not so infinite.
Later it doesnt even matter if it costs gold or not.
So the complete mechanic is not really something good for every player.

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by sdshadow:

Later on gold is not an issue anymore. I can fully respec 5 times a day and I would gain millions of gold regardless.
It would be better if reskilling passives would cost nothing.
At start at which you experiment, the gold is not so infinite.
Later it doesnt even matter if it costs gold or not.
So the complete mechanic is not really something good for every player.

I don't mind it costing something, but by GOD let us respec target points - so I don't need to click-off all specs if I want to swap two points in the base class.

[sdshadow]

Respec only 2 points in your advance class. Give them to the base class and later respec the other 2 points from the base class you wanted to change. The now 2 free points get into the skills you had before at your advance class again.
Not the best solution, but it is done at a few seconds.
Granted, if you really want to reskill most of your class, it gets tedious.

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by sdshadow:

Respec only 2 points in your advance class. Give them to the base class and later respec the other 2 points from the base class you wanted to change. The now 2 free points get into the skills you had before at your advance class again.
Not the best solution, but it is done at a few seconds.
Granted, if you really want to reskill most of your class, it gets tedious.

That is a good idea. Wish I thought of it a few days ago.

[Drosta]

Originally posted by sdshadow:

Later on gold is not an issue anymore. I can fully respec 5 times a day and I would gain millions of gold regardless.
It would be better if reskilling passives would cost nothing.
At start at which you experiment, the gold is not so infinite.
Later it doesnt even matter if it costs gold or not.
So the complete mechanic is not really something good for every player.

this is what i was thinking too. It just needlessly penalises the pre-end game player for wanting to try new things and doesn't make much sense to me. Pointing to an earlier comment in this thread for example, if it isn't an issue because you make so much gold anyway then why does the system need to exist at all?

[Ironwu]

My opinion: There should be NO respec costs for skills or passives. None.

Why? Well if there is a cost that means anything, all it will do is drive people to 'best' builds and Flavor-Of-The-Month builds. And significantly decrease any motivation to experiment.

If respec costs are low enough to not drive people to online guides or prevent experimentation? Well what is the point of having them at all?

Having respec costs are pointless and actually harm the game by removing the incentive for players to actually engage with a major feature of the game.

[tankanidis]

Originally posted by Ironwu:

My opinion: There should be NO respec costs for skills or passives. None.

Why? Well if there is a cost that means anything, all it will do is drive people to 'best' builds and Flavor-Of-The-Month builds. And significantly decrease any motivation to experiment.

If respec costs are low enough to not drive people to online guides or prevent experimentation? Well what is the point of having them at all?

Having respec costs are pointless and actually harm the game by removing the incentive for players to actually engage with a major feature of the game.

I can understand the philosophical argument of what you are saying

But coming from POE where you were basically forced to make a new character if you got your build wrong (faster to level a new character then farm for materials to re-spec your current one if its badly made, ie. didn't follow a guide strictly)

I'm just glad they have a cheap gold method of re-speccing here that you can sort things out in a single play session and save your character from ever feeling weak/bricked

They have to give some uses for gold to make it worthwhile to pick up (i love stash tabs and shattering runes, i'm sure you do too)

[AlienZeratul]

If you respec more, you will discover that either only higher level nodes or those with highest points spent (maximized) cost a few thousand.
So costs will decrease and not all nodes are 1k+ but only a few hundred.

[Ironwu]

Originally posted by tankanidis:

Originally posted by Ironwu:

My opinion: There should be NO respec costs for skills or passives. None.

Why? Well if there is a cost that means anything, all it will do is drive people to 'best' builds and Flavor-Of-The-Month builds. And significantly decrease any motivation to experiment.

If respec costs are low enough to not drive people to online guides or prevent experimentation? Well what is the point of having them at all?

Having respec costs are pointless and actually harm the game by removing the incentive for players to actually engage with a major feature of the game.

I can understand the philosophical argument of what you are saying

But coming from POE where you were basically forced to make a new character if you got your build wrong (faster to level a new character then farm for materials to re-spec your current one if its badly made, ie. didn't follow a guide strictly)

I'm just glad they have a cheap gold method of re-speccing here that you can sort things out in a single play session and save your character from ever feeling weak/bricked

They have to give some uses for gold to make it worthwhile to pick up (i love stash tabs and shattering runes, i'm sure you do too)

Not so much the Gold cost as it is the cost of leveling back up the respec targets. It is a painful and a pointless mechanic, to me at least.

Why punish players for experimenting or 'fixing' builds? Bad design if you want your 'Pay-To-Play' game to have wide success. Time will tell, of course.

But player preferences and what they will put up with do change over time. I think respec costs have seen their day in the sun and should be put to rest now.

[tankanidis]

Originally posted by Ironwu:

Not so much the Gold cost as it is the cost of leveling back up the respec targets. It is a painful and a pointless mechanic, to me at least.

Sorry i thought you meant passive masteries with the gold respec cost

The skill points themselves with the 'lose points, start at minimum level and get bonus xp+ until what you lost' mechanic?

Yeah... i don't like that one bit

If you have earned the point you should be able to keep it and respec it without having to earn it again

[Ironwu]

Originally posted by tankanidis:

Originally posted by Ironwu:

Not so much the Gold cost as it is the cost of leveling back up the respec targets. It is a painful and a pointless mechanic, to me at least.

Sorry i thought you meant passive masteries with the gold respec cost

The skill points themselves with the 'lose points, start at minimum level and get bonus xp+ until what you lost' mechanic?

Yeah... i don't like that one bit

If you have earned the point you should be able to keep it and respec it without having to earn it again

Yes, I kind of lumped them together. Cost in Gold is pretty meaningless except when it is a new player that has little. So, drives players (as it did me) to simply nuke the character and start over. So, if it really only hurts new players, why have it? Not a good plan.

But, I suspect from what I have read from the developers that they may not be open to changing 'pet' design decisions. And they should probably focus on fixing really busted features (such as Key Rebinding) before taking on system changes. :)

[IvoryTemplar]

Originally posted by Drosta:

Seems way too high and should be tuned down. It cost me a few thousand gold just to remove one point in something last night. I don't know if you get so much more gold at the top heavy end of the leveling curve or something. But I was led to believe going into this that respec was pretty forgiving in last epoch. And it was, when I was like level 20. At level 70 that felt needlessly punishing. It's gonna cost my character his life savings to try something new? Why? I thought gaming as a whole had kind of learned it's lesson on punishing players for experimentation and moved away from that model over the years. I'd love to hear that at higher level it's basically a non issue because you're swimming in gold so feel free to give me that to look forward to if that's the case.. but even then I still think the post is fair to make because at the mid-early endgame it feels like the cost is way too high.

1. Unspec 1 point in a mastery
2. Spec said one point into whatever you want on your base class
3. Unspec the one point you don't like in base class
4. Spec that point back into mastery

It's not that hard and it doesn't cost that much.