Is it worth doing "hybrid" builds in Last Epoch?

[Oni]

Like builds focused on both the player and pets.
Or is it more like Grim Dawn, where it's best to focus on one type of build and stick to it?

[Ravenkid9266]

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

"no choice you make really matters until way way later"
That is just simply wrong.

it was Mike, the lead developer, who said it when he said that you can purposefully build wrong, build anti-synergy and still progress into empowered monoliths actually.

[kongkim]

Messaggio originale di Ravenkid9266:

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

"no choice you make really matters until way way later"
That is just simply wrong.

it was Mike, the lead developer, who said it when he said that you can purposefully build wrong, build anti-synergy and still progress into empowered monoliths actually.

Yah, but that is not the same as saying "no choice you make really matters".

But if you think so or have a problem how it is, i really don't ting ARPG games is for you.
As in all ARPG you can more or less kite and give low damage for 100 years until something dies if you want to spend the time. Making your chr. stronger so you kill faster is more or less what ARPG is about.

[Ravenkid9266]

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

Messaggio originale di Ravenkid9266:

it was Mike, the lead developer, who said it when he said that you can purposefully build wrong, build anti-synergy and still progress into empowered monoliths actually.

Yah, but that is not the same as saying "no choice you make really matters".

But if you think so or have a problem how it is, i really don't ting ARPG games is for you.
As in all ARPG you can more or less kite and give low damage for 100 years until something dies if you want to spend the time. Making your chr. stronger so you kill faster is more or less what ARPG is about.

This is going to be complex so stick with me. if you can progress into empowered monoliths making the absolutely objectively worst choices, then what choice matters up to that point? Like I said earlier you get so much free player power from levels and the game is "balanced" to allow you to progress making the worst choices because 2X 10X damage is still enough given the monsters only have X health.

I get it, you are invested in LE and seem to believe it is something other then what it is, perhaps hit mike up on Discord? I hear that he hangs out there often, perhaps you could provide him with his own quotes and see what he thinks about it?

Remember LE has a business model of micro-transactions and thus has to cater to the casual players, making LE casual friendly via allowing easy progress seems like a smart business decision to me.

Play what you like, everything is viable, even randomized build it is very hard to "brick" your character given it is "balanced" to allow you to progress despite your best efforts.

[Geist]

This is one of the games where it is more rewarding to experiment IMO. If you like something you can find a way to make it work. Unless it works too good and gets nerfed.

[nacciw574]

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

Messaggio originale di Ravenkid9266:

This is going to be complex so stick with me. if you can progress into empowered monoliths making the absolutely objectively worst choices, then what choice matters up to that point? Like I said earlier you get so much free player power from levels and the game is "balanced" to allow you to progress making the worst choices because 2X 10X damage is still enough given the monsters only have X health.

I get it, you are invested in LE and seem to believe it is something other then what it is, perhaps hit mike up on Discord? I hear that he hangs out there often, perhaps you could provide him with his own quotes and see what he thinks about it?

Remember LE has a business model of micro-transactions and thus has to cater to the casual players, making LE casual friendly via allowing easy progress seems like a smart business decision to me.

Play what you like, everything is viable, even randomized build it is very hard to "brick" your character given it is "balanced" to allow you to progress despite your best efforts.

Go away troll, i could answer you but think i keep to saying that i think you are wrong and i do not agree with you.
Otherwise we can keep on going forever, and must say your ever ending trolling get to me and annoy me. Thats stupid and is on me.

If he/she goes, can you leave too? I mean white knighting the game doesn't make you right...in fact it just places you on the opposite end of same spectrum.

What happened here was you were told the truth and you don't like it...that's cool. No one really cares that you don't.

Honestly, the only troll(s) here, or anywhere else on the LE forums, are the ones that can't accept the truth of what the game really is...which ironically comes from the developer's own mouth. If you like the game, embrace it's faults, otherwise...


-----> door, please use.

[niaerniopawrjnko]

You know gaming is dead when people are called trolls for not being fanboys. Gaming discussions today are so pointless, everyone is simply way too emotionally invested into games so any critism of the game will be seen as a personal attack.

[Urza]

Messaggio originale di niaerniopawrjnko:

You know gaming is dead when people are called trolls for not being fanboys. Gaming discussions today are so pointless, everyone is simply way too emotionally invested into games so any critism of the game will be seen as a personal attack.

I mean, in this case it was legitimately a 'kicking a dead horse' scenario by a convicted dead horse kicker, guy's got a rap sheet.

I personally think its kinda null/void what arbitrary content midpoint the devs use to balance content around. Players with great builds will blow past that midpoint and then have to grind upgrades endlessly to progress in heavy diminishing returns territory. Players with bad builds will have to grind endlessly to even get to that midpoint.
Both types of players though are essentially experiencing the same game & gameplay though for presumably similar reasons. From the player perspective its basically irrelevant unless you're compelled to compare yourself to others.

[kongkim]

Messaggio originale di niaerniopawrjnko:

You know gaming is dead when people are called trolls for not being fanboys. Gaming discussions today are so pointless, everyone is simply way too emotionally invested into games so any critism of the game will be seen as a personal attack.

Im not calling him a troll for not being a fanboy at all...

I'm calling him a troll because if you follow the game just a bit you know he is one of 3 persons that always pup into most topic with a never-ending criticism of the game. I simply dont get way he stay around and always do that if he really think that there is so much wrong with the game that he always need to tell people if they try to help others or say they enjoy the game.

The game is not perfect, but its not as bad as he always make it to be.

[niaerniopawrjnko]

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

Messaggio originale di niaerniopawrjnko:

You know gaming is dead when people are called trolls for not being fanboys. Gaming discussions today are so pointless, everyone is simply way too emotionally invested into games so any critism of the game will be seen as a personal attack.

Im not calling him a troll for not being a fanboy at all...

I'm calling him a troll because if you follow the game just a bit you know he is one of 3 persons that always pup into most topic with a never-ending criticism of the game. I simply dont get way he stay around and always do that if he really think that there is so much wrong with the game that he always need to tell people if they try to help others or say they enjoy the game.

The game is not perfect, but its not as bad as he always make it to be.

He didnt call it bad though

[kongkim]

Messaggio originale di niaerniopawrjnko:

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

Im not calling him a troll for not being a fanboy at all...

I'm calling him a troll because if you follow the game just a bit you know he is one of 3 persons that always pup into most topic with a never-ending criticism of the game. I simply dont get way he stay around and always do that if he really think that there is so much wrong with the game that he always need to tell people if they try to help others or say they enjoy the game.

The game is not perfect, but its not as bad as he always make it to be.

He didnt call it bad though

Saying choices do not matter, which is simply not true. Good/Bad what box will you put that in?
But it's not just that, it's the big picture how he always does it in all topics about the game if others try to help or say they like the game.

[P.Diddy's Baby Oil]

Messaggio originale di Ravenkid9266:

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

After this topic i started this Hybird build. Is in the mid 50. and it works very well so far :)
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/KoPE043A

Well according to the lead developer mike, LE is balanced such that even a purposefully bad build can progress into empowered monoliths. His benchmark for a non-guide build is 200 corruption, and 500 corruption is cartoonist water spitting voice cracking volume trembling "really high" So I would imagine you can make anything progress if you temper your expectations.

I don't really believe this. I have a meta build VK with massive amounts of sustain (like 1 hit is 0 to full hp), max resists, 60% armor reduction, 100% reduced crit chance and about 2500 hp and still get 1 shot in 120 corruption sometimes from non-bosses. When the mods stack in such a way that it gives enemies like 200% damage mods shred armor ignore resists etc it's just kinda silly. They need to increase base hp by 100% to fix spike damage or remove all the crazy damage mod stacking. No way some "non-guide" build is gonna perform like this VK rive build, no ♥♥♥♥♥♥' chance. lol

[Kmany]

Its okay to die every now and then lol.. dont have to make characters immortal.

[niaerniopawrjnko]

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

Messaggio originale di niaerniopawrjnko:

He didnt call it bad though

Saying choices do not matter, which is simply not true. Good/Bad what box will you put that in?
But it's not just that, it's the big picture how he always does it in all topics about the game if others try to help or say they like the game.

Choices not mattering is a good thing if you want a casual game. I really do not think it is possible to create a bad build in LE, Ive tried but no matter what I do, pretty much all content is easily doable.

[Ravenkid9266]

Messaggio originale di kongkim:

But it's not just that, it's the big picture how he always does it in all topics about the game if others try to help or say they like the game.

OP asked about the viability of a hybrid build, a non-meta build, a build that at first glance is not the type of build LE wants you to make. LE encourages you to specialize.

If you point out that you are free to build what you like and make it work and here are some quotes from the lead developer that lend credence to that, it is somehow not helpful? providing some small amount of encouragement to experiment and find your enjoyment is somehow a bad thing?

Seems to me like you got your pride all wrapped up in LE being something other then what it is. I like cake but pie is good as well, I still get disappointed when I expect one and get the other. Representing something as something it is not, seems far more detrimental to the enjoyment of LE then anything I have ever typed out.

In the design space people often say X is overpowered or broken, and it might be, but that does not make it a problem unless there are no other alternatives. Void Rive might be broken, but its not a barrier to your enjoyment if you temper your expectations and play what you like comfortably at a sub 1000 corruption. Mostly because corruption is a poor metric as others have pointed out its more about the modifiers then anything else and sometimes they simply stack in such a way as even the most optional build gets one tapped.