Are you all dense as bricks?

[Skyblade799]

They used the same supporter pack start system as Path of Exile (but from kick starter), and had a cosmetic tab practically copied out that same game, and you only realized NOW that it is going to have a cash shop? I knew this literal years ago when they were doing this!

Did none of you touch POE and notice that, or are you all just dense as bricks? The only way you make a competitor to a game like POE is a live service. If you wanted another Grim Dawn that's fine, but the bones of the game haven't matched that model for a long time.

[The Lunatic]

PoE is free to play.
Is Last Epoch going to refund everyone and go Free to play too?

[🐺Blue Wolf]

I never paid one cent for PoE, so I'm not sure what a f2p game has to do with a p2p.

[P.Diddy's Baby Oil]

If they'd hidden the fact that a cosmetic cash shop was planned, maybe you'd have some semblance of a point.

[Ayk-]

PoE started as F2P and stayed that way, Last Epoch charges its users for base game.
So, a player tries PoE and decide themselves later if they want to invest more time and money.
For LE, you have only like 1.9 hours to decide if its your fit or not. I wouldn't have any grudge agaisnt MTX if they did it after 1.0 launch or with it, its just I think an early access somewhat buggy fest SHOULD NOT be worthy of an extra cash grab this early.
Regardless, there will be hundreds of people who will shower their money anyway, so gj for them financially.
And to compete with PoE, I just laughed hard man. LE still needs a couple decent years and content to compete, and that is if PoE 2 does not get released in that time period.

[Skyblade799]

Originally posted by The Lunatic:

PoE is free to play.
Is Last Epoch going to refund everyone and go Free to play too?

Originally posted by 🐻 Veles:

I never paid one cent for PoE, so I'm not sure what a f2p game has to do with a p2p.

What it has to do is the post-release content model that they'd baked into the game for a while. Maybe it needed to be laid out for people, but you don't put in a cosmetics tab like that if you aren't planning it. A lot of games have this model now, and a lot do fine. Deeprock Galactic did it after release, and V Rising is doing it well before release right now. Hell, this same thing happened awhile ago with a store template:

https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/now-with-ingame-shop/38101/50

This post was over a year ago! You got cosmetic points on buying the thing with kickstarter!

[The Lunatic]

Originally posted by igaras:

PoE started as F2P and stayed that way, Last Epoch charges its users for base game.
So, a player tries PoE and decide themselves later if they want to invest more time and money.
For LE, you have only like 1.9 hours to decide if its your fit or not. I wouldn't have any grudge agaisnt MTX if they did it after 1.0 launch or with it, its just I think an early access somewhat buggy fest doesn't SHOULD NOT be worthy of an extra cash grab this early.
Regardless, there will be hundreds of people who will shower their money anyway, so gj for them financially.
And to compete with PoE, I just laughed hard man. LE still needs a couple decent years and content to compete, and that is if PoE 2 does not get released in that time period.

For a company that claims to be about the community and "For the players" they sure seem to be okay with selling out.

[Mikoto]

Originally posted by Skyblade799:

Originally posted by The Lunatic:

PoE is free to play.
Is Last Epoch going to refund everyone and go Free to play too?

Originally posted by 🐻 Veles:

I never paid one cent for PoE, so I'm not sure what a f2p game has to do with a p2p.

What it has to do is the post-release content model that they'd baked into the game for a while. Maybe it needed to be laid out for people, but you don't put in a cosmetics tab like that if you aren't planning it. A lot of games have this model now, and a lot do fine. Deeprock Galactic did it after release, and V Rising is doing it well before release right now. Hell, this same thing happened awhile ago with a store template:

https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/now-with-ingame-shop/38101/50

This post was over a year ago! You got cosmetic points on buying the thing with kickstarter!

None of the games you said are using a cash shop. Both games allow you to use what you purchased (because it is a dlc, not a cash shop mtx) online or offline.

Stop trying to gas light and normalize a scam.

[Skyblade799]

Originally posted by igaras:

PoE started as F2P and stayed that way, Last Epoch charges its users for base game.
So, a player tries PoE and decide themselves later if they want to invest more time and money.
For LE, you have only like 1.9 hours to decide if its your fit or not. I wouldn't have any grudge agaisnt MTX if they did it after 1.0 launch or with it, its just I think an early access somewhat buggy fest SHOULD NOT be worthy of an extra cash grab this early.
Regardless, there will be hundreds of people who will shower their money anyway, so gj for them financially.
And to compete with PoE, I just laughed hard man. LE still needs a couple decent years and content to compete, and that is if PoE 2 does not get released in that time period.

Indeed they do need that time. If i remember correctly though, POE on steam launch was a content incomplete mess with three acts and an incomplete endgame. I'd know; I played it on launch. You don't get that time without a system like that.

If there is anything I don't disagree with, it's that Last epoch should have used the 35$ price point for supporter packs instead of initial entry at all, and should have been Free to Play. Did they? No. Is it a dealbreaker? Since other games have done this and done well, I'm going to wait and see before I condemn them for it. Hell, are the prices too much? Perhaps!

The main reason I made this thread though? Wondering how almost no one here saw this coming, when it visible since it first launched years ago.

[Skyblade799]

Originally posted by The Lunatic:

Originally posted by igaras:

PoE started as F2P and stayed that way, Last Epoch charges its users for base game.
So, a player tries PoE and decide themselves later if they want to invest more time and money.
For LE, you have only like 1.9 hours to decide if its your fit or not. I wouldn't have any grudge agaisnt MTX if they did it after 1.0 launch or with it, its just I think an early access somewhat buggy fest doesn't SHOULD NOT be worthy of an extra cash grab this early.
Regardless, there will be hundreds of people who will shower their money anyway, so gj for them financially.
And to compete with PoE, I just laughed hard man. LE still needs a couple decent years and content to compete, and that is if PoE 2 does not get released in that time period.

For a company that claims to be about the community and "For the players" they sure seem to be okay with selling out.

Yeah, GGG gets way too much praise for hating their playerbase and tweaking things in ways to ensure they give maximum time.
Started when leagues were still soft vs hardcore variants, and stopped playing that in Scourge. Never want to go back.

If that happens here, I'll be out as well.

[Ravenkid9266]

Originally posted by Skyblade799:

If there is anything I don't disagree with, it's that Last epoch should have used the 35$ price point for supporter packs instead of initial entry at all, and should have been Free to Play.

LE being F2P (up to level 20) was the original plan. The sticker price was intended to curb bots. Their kick starter is still up where you can find that original information. Seems to me like the planed business model never required the sticker price to fund development.

"The planned pay model for Last Epoch upon release is for the game to be free to all players until level 20 with restrictions on player interaction in order to deter spamming. To advance beyond level 20, players may spend $14.99 to unlock the rest of the game's content and full social features! These restrictions on free players will go a long way to deter spam and botting accounts, which will help keep the game’s community and economy healthy. This one-time payment will be all that a player will have to spend to have the complete Last Epoch experience and be on the same footing as other players." -From the kick starter.

[Skyblade799]

Originally posted by Ravenkid9266:

Originally posted by Skyblade799:

If there is anything I don't disagree with, it's that Last epoch should have used the 35$ price point for supporter packs instead of initial entry at all, and should have been Free to Play.

LE being F2P (up to level 20) was the original plan. The sticker price was intended to curb bots. Their kick starter is still up where you can find that original information. Seems to me like the planed business model never required the sticker price to fund development.

"The planned pay model for Last Epoch upon release is for the game to be free to all players until level 20 with restrictions on player interaction in order to deter spamming. To advance beyond level 20, players may spend $14.99 to unlock the rest of the game's content and full social features! These restrictions on free players will go a long way to deter spam and botting accounts, which will help keep the game’s community and economy healthy. This one-time payment will be all that a player will have to spend to have the complete Last Epoch experience and be on the same footing as other players." -From the kick starter.

Frankly if they go back down to that price and stick the spare money into points for early purchases alongside early steam rewards like the backpack, that's probably a better way to go. Bots were (and I'd bet still are) a big problem in games like POE because of it being free.

[Ayk-]

Originally posted by Skyblade799:

Originally posted by igaras:

PoE started as F2P and stayed that way, Last Epoch charges its users for base game.
So, a player tries PoE and decide themselves later if they want to invest more time and money.
For LE, you have only like 1.9 hours to decide if its your fit or not. I wouldn't have any grudge agaisnt MTX if they did it after 1.0 launch or with it, its just I think an early access somewhat buggy fest SHOULD NOT be worthy of an extra cash grab this early.
Regardless, there will be hundreds of people who will shower their money anyway, so gj for them financially.
And to compete with PoE, I just laughed hard man. LE still needs a couple decent years and content to compete, and that is if PoE 2 does not get released in that time period.

Indeed they do need that time. If i remember correctly though, POE on steam launch was a content incomplete mess with three acts and an incomplete endgame. I'd know; I played it on launch. You don't get that time without a system like that.

If there is anything I don't disagree with, it's that Last epoch should have used the 35$ price point for supporter packs instead of initial entry at all, and should have been Free to Play. Did they? No. Is it a dealbreaker? Since other games have done this and done well, I'm going to wait and see before I condemn them for it. Hell, are the prices too much? Perhaps!

The main reason I made this thread though? Wondering how almost no one here saw this coming, when it visible since it first launched years ago.

I really don't care if the MTX was coming through or not, I purchased the game after MP Beta.
PoE launched as a garage dev game, yes that 3 act no mapping times were dark but it was F2P regardless. I played it back then and decided the game needed more development time to return after act 4 expansion(which is a considerably long time, if you are familiar with PoE development timeline).

I can agree with LE fans on some basis when I put them in my shoes, they got tired from the nerffest since last yea on PoE. Yeah, LE is much more player friendly compared to that stance, but im expecting some nerfs before 1.0, as you get too much power just from passive skill trees(both character and skills you choose).
I enjoy playing LE occasionally, but I don't find this MTX decision while the game is Pay 2 Play friendly.

[Ravenkid9266]

Originally posted by Skyblade799:

Originally posted by Ravenkid9266:

LE being F2P (up to level 20) was the original plan. The sticker price was intended to curb bots. Their kick starter is still up where you can find that original information. Seems to me like the planed business model never required the sticker price to fund development.

"The planned pay model for Last Epoch upon release is for the game to be free to all players until level 20 with restrictions on player interaction in order to deter spamming. To advance beyond level 20, players may spend $14.99 to unlock the rest of the game's content and full social features! These restrictions on free players will go a long way to deter spam and botting accounts, which will help keep the game’s community and economy healthy. This one-time payment will be all that a player will have to spend to have the complete Last Epoch experience and be on the same footing as other players." -From the kick starter.

Frankly if they go back down to that price and stick the spare money into points for early purchases alongside early steam rewards like the backpack, that's probably a better way to go. Bots were (and I'd bet still are) a big problem in games like POE because of it being free.

Bots in poe sure, in LE not so much. What would you do as a bot? Trade is locked behind faction progression.

I just wanted to point out that the business model has changed a lot overtime (like most things in LE).

[Ravenkid9266]

Originally posted by igaras:

Yeah, LE is much more player friendly compared to that stance, but im expecting some nerfs before 1.0, as you get too much power just from passive skill trees(both character and skills you choose).

This got rolled into a feature and not a problem a while back so try and not hold your breath.

[Psycha]

It's mainly the timing of the release on MTX that is the bad thing here.. We all knew it was coming but it shouldn't be this soon after MP release.