Is this more complex than grim dawn?

[Dalollypop]

We all know its less than PoE but is it more or less than grim dawn...hmmm?

[RIG-801]

It's about the same overall complexity in my opinion, but it depends on whether you find the individual systems complex or not. I think it's safe to say if you figured out Grim Dawn you'll figure this one out as well.

Be warned though, itemization in this one right now is a little bit messy - items don't play that much of a big part in builds as in Grim Dawn. Probably, hopefully, there will be a change in the future for this.

[Mimoslav]

Grim Dawn is a far more complex game. The right game to compare Last Epoch to is Diablo 3.

[Vel]

Anybody who says they are the same obviously didn't play both games.

GD is much much more complex than LE. GD you can literally play 2 characters at the same time!

LE is only 1 char, 5 abilities, and 3 passive trees. you can pick a mastery as your passive and level it max, 2 other passives are then locked half-way through, and you can only use the first half of them.

THat's why I like LE - I don't have time to study a game to enjoy it. Try it, you'll love it (Specially crafting)

[Gorynych]

nope

[nowhere man]

No it's not.

[[Ygg]Azarhiel]

Grim Dawn has more ccomplex systems that interact with each other. Gear and Devotions being the most complex and impactfull ones on a build.

[RIG-801]

Originally posted by Vel:

GD you can literally play 2 characters at the same time!

Except you don't, the dual class is there to facilitate build variety, not impose 2 different builds onto a single char. What on earth are you on about?

[Tech Enthusiast]

Originally posted by Mimoslav:

Grim Dawn is a far more complex game. The right game to compare Last Epoch to is Diablo 3.

If you truely believe that, you have not played either. Sorry. That is just flat out false.

Last Epoch is about the middle ground between Diablo 3 and PoE.
And I would not give this any "value", since people enjoy all three for what they are.

Diablo 3 focuses on pure demon slaying. All other aspects are an afterthought and just tacked on.
I would say Demon slaying is about 95% of what you do, with the remaining 5% being crafting / theorycrafting and other stuff.

PoE is the polar opposite: Monster slaying is totally secondary, since about every build oneshots the screen in lightning speeds. A good build makes Diablo 3 clear speeds look slow. But to get there you need to invest in PLENTY of other activities like trading via websites, crafting, "having luck" in crafting and actually theorycrafting that character for quite a while.
I would say Demon slaying is about 20% of what you do, with about identical 20% of time spend theory crafting and the remaining 60% is used for getting the items you need via trading on external websites and crafting what you need.

Last Epoch seems to aim for the middle ground. Slaying demons is a huge part, but you also can not neglect theory crafting and crafting items.
I would say Demon slaying is about 75% of what you do, with 15% of time spend theory crafting your build and the remaining 10% time spend crafting.

All three games have their own focus that appeals to some players.
Personally I Enjoy all three approaches. While Diablo 3 is HUGE FUN for a week each season, it is done after that. But I leave with a good feeling of having spend my time with a fun experience.
Path of Exiles is a love / hate relation ship.
I enjoy the first few days, when no optimal setup is required, due to being able to tinker with my build in so many ways. Usually after a week the play time stops, like in D3, but it is due to getting annoyed at the trade system, not having luck while crafting and hitting a brick wall that I need to solve via more trading.

Last Epoch currently hits my personal idea of a good time the best.
I can just slay demons and get far with that. Then theorycrafting and crafting items is a more deterministic idea compared to PoE. You need to invest some time, but that is totally fine. Building your idea of the toon and executing it to get back to slaying demons seems to be a great balance. You get rewarded for thinking about what you do, without totally drowning in the work you need to invest in this part of the genre.

Where D3 has too little thinking involved, PoE has too much focus and time investment away from slaying demons and getting loot.
Last Epoch is on a great path right now, but balance is certainly still ongoing.

If I had to give a direction, I would say Last Epoch could do with A TINY LITTLE more sidestuff for theory crafting and stuff, but I am talking 1-3% here. I am totally fine with what it is right now.

And remember:
There does not need to be a "winner" in ARPGs.
The more diverse the big games are, the more people can enjoy the genre with a focus they enjoy most. A game does not need to be extreme in either direction to be good. Sometimes a happy medium is the best. LE seems to aim for that.

[Ayk-]

LE is pretty simple and brief, respeccing builds are really easy, so you can't really go wrong.
Grim dawn is far more complex because of multi-classing and the devotion system.

[ALDC]

Having played GD before and just started on LE, I'd agree with many others that GD is wayyy more complex. The world also feels bigger in GD than in LE with more places and quests to explore per location. That said, LE is great for beginners to start off and less intimidating since it's simpler and less complexity. A great ARPG to chill after a tired day at work.

[Taita]

I have around 600h both in GD and LE and I just wanted to point out that GD is probably more complex than LE however I used to look up interesting builds on forum (and there is a lot) and just stick to them. So you can definitely have a laid back experience in GD too.

However in LE you don't even have to look up builds. Just try out a meaningful combination of skills and you will be able to do a lot of content.

[skeletalhammer]

Passives in GD are slightly more complex, you dual class with two main trees of your choice. In LE, you get access to 2 main trees, and either one or two half trees, but they are all from the same main class.
Blessings are much simpler than GD's constellation system and only come in later on.
Individual skills in LE are more complex than GD.
LE loot is much simpler than in GD (as GD has many more build enabling and interesting items), but the basic items are about the same. GD has a leg up with monster base items being build enabling.
Crafting in LE is more complex and than GD, as GD only lets you add powders and stuff. Which is really powerful, but no rocket science.

Loved Grim Dawn, but the game is just so damned slow and clunky. System really shows its age. Never had any issues with its multiplayer though.

LE is really smooth in solo play, even puts PoE to shame there. But the connectivity kind of sucks and I rubberband like hell in multiplayer. To be fair, had the same problem with PoE when it came out. Was virtually unplayable due to rubberbanding and latency issues.

[KingofApples]

No. It's more complex than D3. Not as much as POE, in a good way.

[Darkeus]

Originally posted by Tech Enthusiast:

Originally posted by Mimoslav:

Grim Dawn is a far more complex game. The right game to compare Last Epoch to is Diablo 3.

And remember:
There does not need to be a "winner" in ARPGs.
The more diverse the big games are, the more people can enjoy the genre with a focus they enjoy most. A game does not need to be extreme in either direction to be good. Sometimes a happy medium is the best. LE seems to aim for that.

I just wanted to highlight how wise and awesome this statement is. You got the right idea.