Last Epoch
Why is loot so boring and bad?
I haven't found a loot upgrade since level 8. I'm level 55. The stats for everything are so low and boring. The drop rate for uniques and sets (never seen one) is way too low. So boring that something I found at level 8 is better than literally anything that has dropped in the next 50 levels.
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46-60 / 83 のコメントを表示
Aribad 2023年3月12日 19時09分 
Rampage の投稿を引用:
most boring loot system ever which revolves around you crafting all your gear basically.
In the aRPGs I like crafting was only for temporarely filling a slot I didnt find something good for yet.

In this game the items you find are useless trash to be turned into crafting materials...
Oh no are you saying this has Path of Exiles loot system instead of Diablo 2 loot system? I want good drops, that's what keep me grinding, not any stinking materials i use to upgrade ♥♥♥♥ gear.
Ayk- の投稿を引用:
Well put, but it will go into deaf ears at the end of the day.

This is why skills and passives have had so many bugs for so long, despite the many hours of collective playtime. No one notices that 20% is actually 2% for years because you get so much anyway, same with gear.
ostar 2023年3月12日 20時36分 
It's weird to hear people complain about poe's loot or crafting systems, let alone this game's.

Like, they want these games to be braindead easy. How boring.

And this game's loot and crafting system isn't even complicated once you figure it out.

But, if it's too complicated for you, there's always good ol' shallow-as-a-puddle-on-a-sidewalk d3.

I hear d3 added a shrine this season that makes the game even easier!
最近の変更はostarが行いました; 2023年3月12日 20時37分
i find useful loot all the time. loot filter can help.
Ghostlight の投稿を引用:
Most of the loot comes from crafting.

The loot is "boring" because other than Uniques, it shouldn't even be viewed as loot. It isn't loot. It should be viewed either as a source of crafting mats OR a base item to begin crafting with.

This is fairly moot and doesn't address the core issue. Perfect crafted gear still isn't very strong and as such isn't very important or worthwhile to "chase." Whether we are talking about perfect stats on a dropped item or perfect stats on a crafted item, it's still only a few percent of your total character power. Loot is loot in this case, crafted, traded, or dropped.

The difference between a character in white gear and well equipped character in PoE for example is a factor of like 1000. Going from thousands of DPS to millions of DPS. This makes finding good gear, or trading for it, or crafting it, worthwhile to keep playing and grinding for. That is what drives the loot economy in a looter game. Obviously a game can go too far in the other direction as well which is bad, like Diablo 3, there has to be a balance, but Last Epoch is just nowhere near where it needs to be for loot to matter and for the core gameplay loop to be engaging long term.

It is very common in LE to find an item at a low level and just keep using it into end game because there's very little gear progression. Then at endgame when you finally go out of your way to craft an upgrade, you just don't feel it, it doesn't noticeably impact your gameplay and as such doesn't feel good.

Like I love a lot of what this game does, but I can't see myself playing it for very long without a serious change to loot here. It's the most important aspect of a game in this genre and it just falls entirely flat. There's only so much other innovative systems and QoL can do when the core mechanic of the game isn't working.
Kalarian の投稿を引用:
I haven't found a loot upgrade since level 8. I'm level 55. The stats for everything are so low and boring. The drop rate for uniques and sets (never seen one) is way too low. So boring that something I found at level 8 is better than literally anything that has dropped in the next 50 levels.
what item? or items? the stats on higher level items are objectively higher than lower level items. 10 armor boots vs 35 armor boots for example. how is it possible you didn't find anything with higher stats that made it better than what you picked up around level 8? what is the item cause i just don't believe you. maybe you're exaggerating and being hyperbolic or maybe you are wrong in your perception of the loot you haven't been paying much attention to.
As long as the dropped loot is something worth grinding, i'm ok with any crafting(PoE isn't hard ostar, chill with the attitude).
Astasia の投稿を引用:

This is fairly moot and doesn't address the core issue. Perfect crafted gear still isn't very strong and as such isn't very important or worthwhile to "chase." Whether we are talking about perfect stats on a dropped item or perfect stats on a crafted item, it's still only a few percent of your total character power. Loot is loot in this case, crafted, traded, or dropped.

Anytime you bring up how bad loot is you have people attempt to make the conversation about crafting or target farming. At this point I believe this to be a deliberate disingenuous deflection. The majority of people who want it changed are not speaking to the crafting system, or drop rates, or even target farming, they are speaking about how much impact loot has on your character power.

Now I get it, an easy game can smash that dopamine button, but what is the effect? it has been how long since the patch and people are already making their 3rd 4th character after making it to post story content. Does not seem to speak well on the longevity of the game to me. This is also before you get into the cycles.

Now its fine to want a more simplistic casual game, but I still maintain it is bad for the long term health of the game with such a business model, to say nothing of the sour taste left in peoples mouth when they are marketed something akin to PoE/Diablo and get *gestures vaguely at everything*
neosun 2023年3月13日 8時54分 
Last Epoch has the very best loot system ever done. Just use lootfilter. The must have feature for every game from now on, in loot focused games. Without filter u will miss 90 % of great loor and 100 % of joy finding stuff.
You must be playing a different game. If you haven't upgraded gear since level 8 then I can only surmise you just refused to even look at your drops.

The loot system is basically the same progression as in D2 and PoE, where higher level areas drop higher bases with higher possible affix rolls. Unless you're not touching anything that drops for you, it's borderline impossible to not have come across any upgrades at all, even if you had my luck and were kitted out with 5 uniques on level 15.

I think this might be a "you" issue.

As to set and unique items. At least in my own experience across a multitude of characters they drop pretty frequently, but even if you get unlucky on natural drops all you really have to do is pursue monoliths and go for them there.
Game can't short-change you if it's a guaranteed drop.
最近の変更はNixBoxDoneが行いました; 2023年3月13日 10時18分
MeatRack84 の投稿を引用:
i find useful loot all the time. loot filter can help.

I can't make loot filter work. I selected 'don't show me common or uncommon loot', and It does anyways.
SHADOW'K0BRA の投稿を引用:
MeatRack84 の投稿を引用:
i find useful loot all the time. loot filter can help.

I can't make loot filter work. I selected 'don't show me common or uncommon loot', and It does anyways.

You might need to watch a tutorial. The TL.DR. is that the rules have a hierarchy so you wanna put in "hide all" first and then selectively "show" things you want following that up.
That way common or uncommon items shouldn't smuggle their way in unless they satisfy your chosen search criteria because everything was hidden and only stuff you chose to show gets an exception.
If you set the rules to show items correctly, the only low rarity stuff should be things with affixes you want in the right quantities (which makes them either potential crafting targets or crafting mats via shattering).
Don't forget to show idols and set/unique items, mind.
Also be aware that if you're too strict, the ground might be pretty barren. Might be better to be a bit more relaxed and grab the odd item to crump for crafting mats than to miss out on one that you could've polished up.
最近の変更はNixBoxDoneが行いました; 2023年3月13日 10時37分
Ayk- の投稿を引用:
Ravenkid9266 の投稿を引用:
It gets better. oh wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSpBd-j_COM&t=1s

wait it gets better, oh wait.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/704436959

Its just an anomaly, oh wait.

https://clips.twitch.tv/JoyousShinyWalrusFailFish-jATux_QLDNn2vi17
https://clips.twitch.tv/TriangularHotRutabagaAMPTropPunch-BJHjX3NePQooZy-B

Just my 2 cents here, feel free to disagree.
LizardIRL is not the best example to show the balancing problem of LE. The guy literally played the hell out of the game, possibly knows whats broken(acolyte currently). And not everyone will be able to do a naked emperor of corpses kill.
For every ARPG, there will be a streamer that clears all content ez pz. Even PoE has guys that do the hardest content on 1-link.
There is a balancing problem far away from being solved, but this is not the best way to demonstrate it. Or one could argue there could be none, as this game is the most casual ARPG I have ever played after D3.



Ayk- の投稿を引用:
Ravenkid9266 の投稿を引用:
It gets better. oh wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSpBd-j_COM&t=1s

wait it gets better, oh wait.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/704436959

Its just an anomaly, oh wait.

https://clips.twitch.tv/JoyousShinyWalrusFailFish-jATux_QLDNn2vi17
https://clips.twitch.tv/TriangularHotRutabagaAMPTropPunch-BJHjX3NePQooZy-B

Just my 2 cents here, feel free to disagree.
LizardIRL is not the best example to show the balancing problem of LE. The guy literally played the hell out of the game, possibly knows whats broken(acolyte currently). And not everyone will be able to do a naked emperor of corpses kill.
For every ARPG, there will be a streamer that clears all content ez pz. Even PoE has guys that do the hardest content on 1-link.
There is a balancing problem far away from being solved, but this is not the best way to demonstrate it. Or one could argue there could be none, as this game is the most casual ARPG I have ever played after D3.
In Diablo 3; you got all of your power from gear. In Diablo 2; you got 80% of your power from the level curve and 20% from gear.

If you can complete the content in the game naked, that's because you've acquired the power through the leveling curve and spent your skills properly AND know how to play.

I don't see how that's a balance issue at all, that's just being skilled at the game.

Like for instance, take a FPS game like Doom Eternal. People say this game is brutally hard, and it is for some, but then for others it's EZ PZ. The differential is in the player skill and meta strategy; not a balance issue with the game.

I think this is an intelligence issue with the player.

If you make it so all of the power comes from gear, than your builds are dictated by what you find, which takes the agency away from the player and rests it into the hands of RNGesus. If you make it so most of your power comes from strategy in how you build your character, than you can design a build -- which is what makes an RPG an RPG. That IS the GENRE.

Gear is the cherry on top, that enables exceptional and out of the box ideas; the gear becomes the end game.

I don't think that makes a game casual; but you know -- Facts>Feels.

If the game is too easy, it's too easy. But like -- we use data to determine that. Look at the Soulslike genre, they are known for being brutally hard, but there are people out there that beat them all without being hit a single time.

What you need to look at is the general experience. If 99.9% of the player base cannot complete the game, it's too hard. But even if 99.9% of the player base cannot complete the game, someone will still beat it easily. This one anecdote cannot be used as a metric to criticize balance.
最近の変更はxXLaokinXxが行いました; 2023年3月13日 11時28分
xXLaokinXx の投稿を引用:
I don't see how that's a balance issue at all, that's just being skilled at the game.

Oh so close.

Ravenkid9266 の投稿を引用:
That is a fair take I mean he is playing at a human level of 300FPS, making 5 head decisions with blinding efficiency.

Take the dragon for example are you really asserting that the vast majority of players are unable to move in and out of the boss mechanic? Seems like a low ask for a boss fight that is entirely balanced around move out move in.
NixBoxDone の投稿を引用:
The loot system is basically the same progression as in D2 and PoE, where higher level areas


Not even close, loot in diablo 2 doesnt revolve around crafting your own gear.
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投稿日: 2023年3月12日 7時53分
投稿数: 83