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I also prefer having the option to slot more skills (like Grim Dawn), but the game is designed to play differently. I'm guessing the conceit here is to focus on skills that you want to specialize in, and only use those. Still feels way better than say, Diablo 3, where everything feels like it's on rails.
As for the mouse movement, it's more about precision targeting with skills, not freeing up your off hand for clicking more buttons (controllers have more than 4 buttons too, after all). I've been playing a Necromancer, and it's very valuable to be able to spawn pets in specific spots, or to lay down AOE spells where they are most effective, or even just to teleport precisely.
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/skills-to-pay-the-bills/1333
But again its not people fault, its game design like low or zero cds. And again nothing innovative here. The same formula used for 20+ years.
This is not directed at you necessarily, but i've seen many people mentioning GD (and other ARPGs) when talking about the limited skill slots. So i always have a question : how many builds in GD use more than 5 skills (excluding passives, because LE has them too, outside of usable active skills) ? Not many. You still use 1, 2, maybe 3 skills, the rest are some auras (passives). I think people can get that "freedom of skill choice" feeling in GD (compared to LE in this case) because you play 2 classes, AND there are some items that also have skills, AND there are runes that also have skills, AND there are constellations that trigger skills, but it's still, in great majority, not more than a few in endgame. That's why i don't understand the fuss when in all the other ARPGs, you play exactly the same, you're just not restricted to 5 slots, so in the end, there's not much difference, if any. It's just served differently.
I think the only logical reason why someone would not like it in LE is because of the skills variety itself. It would give a lot better feeling if people saw that they have like 20 active skills for each class to choose from and build with them (and with all those skills having their own skill trees, it would make for a big enough variety and choice), in the opposite to like half of it that you can actually experiment with. Pretty sure they will add new ones as time goes though. At least i hope so.
So, to sum it up : the amount of skills to choose from is a lot more important than the amount of skill slots a character has, cause in ARPGs, you spam the most powerful one(s) all the time anyway. LE's system also makes for more strategic approach to choose wisely and specialize in something, which i personally like, but not everyone does, of course.
Exactly this. It's just how the genre is, and how the gameplay is designed. You just go ham on one thing and power it up for the best results, not focus on various things (and various skills). I think changing the formula just won't happen in this genre, cause it's not an MMORPG when you juggle with skills all the time. It's min-maxing, which is limiting in itself, but that's how it's always been.
You can change it and innovate it. Its just lazy devs with lazy ideas. Last epoch offers nothing new. On top of that some features are mediocre, whole endgame system is mediocre. The only thing which is pretty fun passives inside skill tree. But yeah i think this is the biggest problem of the game and i think this game will never be on top because of that. I already did everything what last epoch can offer in other games XXXX times.
They could take some inspiration from lost ark. Atleast for combat system.
And i judge this game a lot not only because of the outdated systems and lack innovations, but planned mtx as well. I dont care about being a small studio anymore. If you are planning to add skins deliver a good product, specially in rpg. Do i care how i look like? Hell yes. But i bet all best looking armor will be skins, so yeah. Id rather pay for expansions.
In Grim dawn, my main character (cold based Blademaster) has six active skills, and a seventh that I can use, but really don't (item granted). I also have 3 buffs, and the Blade Spirit pets. Buffs usually only need to be toggled once, but they CAN be dispelled by enemies, which means that you DO need those extra buttons in Grim Dawn. I've also got a Spellbreaker leveling up that has 7 active buffs, and only 4 active skills. Some people like "piano" builds. Some people like auto-attack builds. They are both viable.
As far as devotions go, I feel they are very similar to the skill specialization in Last Epoch. Not quite as flexible as devotions, but much easier to understand and implement into an effective build.
I really like Last Epoch's system, even if it's not my preference in general. It's well implemented, allows for good build diversity, and is MUCH easier to grasp as a new player. I love Grim Dawn, but it is dense, and daunting. Last Epoch has depth, but is more friendly to new players. Both approaches are valid, and will attract different players (with significant overlap).
Edit: I've also been playing Warhammer 40k Inquisitor. It also has limited skill slots, so I put passives on a secondary weapon, then switch to my primary with the active skills I want. It's not necessary, but this allows me to put up a circuit breaker, a shield, and have a full set of synergized damage slots for handling different situations. That comes out to 2 passives, an auto attack, and 5 active abilities. I also have a heal and a debuff slotted to the secondary weapon, but they get used less often.
Hopefully aRPG game devs will discover this functionality one day. Maybe even in this century.
That said, I like ability management. That's just part of most ARPGs, even ones that are more geared toward the action spectrum, like Mass Effect. It's not for everyone, though.
It's sad. Because playing piano with his rotation of skills is the only thing which needs to be almost "skilled" in a mmo (kind of game pulled down because of the general cooldown of skills). Without this piano it would be soporific, and we could as well be playing a hack'n'slash with a mono-key build with more enjoyment.
And, it's not for you, but i think it's funny to read some people complaining about having only 5 active skills (and as much passives ones than the other games) with LE, when in all h&s, you only have a strong single target skill for bosses and a multi target skill for groups of mobs.
The rest being only activables and auras that you rarely click on. The builds being concentrated on these 2 attacks only. If you use more than 2 attacks, it's nice but you nerf yourself, most of the time. Who uses 4 activable attacks in a hack'n'slash without struggling more than someone who has only 2 in his build ? And no matter which H&S...
And please, stop with Lost Ark, it's not an hack'n'slash. Compare it with "Black desert" or "Star Wars the old republic" or any other MMO you want. (preferably a korean one, swtor is not really a good example to be compared to Lost Ark either).
Go pexing LA, finish your levelling and come to the end game. And when you will attack the raids, the content not repeatable because on timers, the korean grind about stuff which will make you pass the farm of LE for trifles, we will speak about it again. (When I think that some complain about the farm to make a legendary here, go test Lost ark and the farm of components in the end game that we laugh, it's not the same story :p).
When players will finally understand what LA is about instead of believing it's a hack'n'slash because it looks like one during a part of its levelling, it's going to make some people have a shock. (Already its peak player count has dropped by 20% in only 15 days and despite the hype that's coming from everywhere. We're not at the point of "New World "yet, but it's still too early to see how he's going to retain his players).
But I have to admit that the greater feature of LA is to make us some rodhull vacations here, and i must say thank you Amazon for that :)
I'm an old guy (for most of people on Steam, who are probably younger guys), for me H&S in my time were named "diablo like".
It's why i never call this kind of games "ARPG" which is now means nothing and everything at the same time but "hack'n'slash". (Mass effect is an ARPG, Dynasty warrior is an action game but none of them are "diablo like"for example)
But the question, and this question is for a lot of gamers, until where they've played lost Ark ? During the levelling only or until the end game?
Because it's where the game becomes an mmo. Raids in group and content locked by timers is something coming from MMOs, not from H&S. I have nothing against that, i'm a MMO player too.
But the guys who likes repeating the same content/ farming the same boss to have his loot (aka Baal's run) or who likes to play solo will have a hard time in the LA end game. And I hope they will like to farm, because it's not an occidental game, and the farm when came to the end game is not the same despite what says Amazon. (legendaries here on LE is for babies in comparison from).
We will see what the people will think about this the next weeks/months (for the more casuals) once the hype is over. And especially the H&S players (not the MMOs ones).
As far as I know, action RPG has never solely meant Diablo-likes (there have been ARPGs prior, such as the Tales series), but genres and terminology are both nebulous and highly regional. I've always referred to simple action games with swordplay as hack & slash - RPG mechanics optional but not required. I'd concede that this definition includes the OG Diablo, but probably not its successors. Diablo II added quite a bit of depth, and the style of game was fairly well cemented by then. I realize hack & slash is often used for games like DII, Last Epoch, Grim Dawn, etc., I've just always felt it was too reductive. But that's a personal quibble.
So, if you mean h&s to mean Diablo-like, I agree, Lost Ark ain't that. It's an action oriented MMORPG, with very predatory "f2p" mechanics.
I'd change to a different ability but that would hurt my damage output until leveled. I've read that dev blog linked earlier. It didn't offer a strong argument. Think it would be more fun to be able to utilize all of my classes abilities without penalties. Let me freely change among the abilities I've unlocked and take the slot number up to 6. Being locked into my class is already enough of a restriction.
Piano playstyles are not particularly fun for anyone, PoE is a great example of this which started mostly with flask management for piano style but as of the last year has been introducing more and more active abillities to further make the game even more piano style and people complain about it all the time.
More abillity spam doesn't makes the game more fun or more interesting, it does the opposite. The better way to go is always to have lots of options of cool abillities, but let the player pick the 2 or 3 he wants to use and stick to that.