This or POE?

[Vors]

I've had very little experience with either, in a vacuum which game would you say is more worthy of your time? thanks

[Nakos]

Destro eredeti hozzászólása:

The main obstacle I see with most games including LE is really just build diversity, which funnily enough, is a big part of what people complain about as being the 'complex' part about POE. And, they are right. It's complex, because if it were simple, then there would be fewer options. In essence, the system wouldn't be praiseworthy. It'd be boring.

Class specific skill trees work. I mean, D2, D3 and tons of other ARPGs and RPGs in general use them. But, it's a relatively old and simple concept that leads to more binary build-decisions overall. Easier, sure. But, boring with less room for creativity to flourish. And, I think it's a big part of why LE can never beat POE.

Yeah, that all is the great strength of PoE. Vast build diversity is possible. Vast freedom is possible. But that also means you're free to screw up, the game doesn't hold your hand. Which is part of the fun.

My favorite was a Consecrated Path Scion, using the Oni-Goroshi. And yeah... I was silly enough to insist on SSF play. Had a ton of fun with that combo. I could do early mapping with that, and I probably could have done a whole lot better if I'd been willing to buy even a few pieces of gear.

[Ardenian]

Nakos eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, that all is the great strength of PoE. Vast build diversity is possible. Vast freedom is possible. But that also means you're free to screw up, the game doesn't hold your hand. Which is part of the fun. (...)

What I like about Last Epoch right now is that most builds are viable in one way or another, with some thinking and strategy. The problem in Path of Exile is power creep, "meta builds" that you have to play to be able to do endgame content. You can make most builds viable by just throwing enough currency at them buying gear from other people, but you also got to farm that currency first which you cannot if your build isn't viable for the content offered.

We will have to see where Last Epoch eventually ends up in that regard, but so far it is definitely nice to be able to play what you like to play for classes and skills and not what a meta dictates.

[Nakos]

Ardenian eredeti hozzászólása:

What I like about Last Epoch right now is that most builds are viable in one way or another, with some thinking and strategy. The problem in Path of Exile is power creep, "meta builds" that you have to play to be able to do endgame content. You can make most builds viable by just throwing enough currency at them buying gear from other people, but you also got to farm that currency first which you cannot if your build isn't viable for the content offered.

We will have to see where Last Epoch eventually ends up in that regard, but so far it is definitely nice to be able to play what you like to play for classes and skills and not what a meta dictates.

Ennh ... that's just a brass ring you're chasing there.

The goal is to have fun, and the fun part is the chasing. Actually catching the thing is just a letdown. You don't actually have to play the "meta" for the season.

You can build whatever you like. Yes, you'll likely fail, but it's the TRYING that's the fun part.

Personally speaking, when I play PoE, I go out of my way to make things harder. I play SSF. Yes, it puts a ceiling on how far you can go without treating the game as both a first AND second job (or getting insanely lucky with drops), but that's not the point. The point is to have fun trying. And I have a lot more fun making my own builds and struggling along with only my own resources than I do playing the "trading game".

I did actually play D3 when it was new and still had an Auction House. I never bothered with the RMT version, but even the game-gold only AH ruined the game (in my opinion). Buying one's way to victory is never something I enjoy.

[Dorok]

As I don't like PoE in no way I'd like have LE a sort of clone of PoE even in its design spirit.

PoE players have PoE "2" coming they don't need another clone.

[RodHull]

Ardenian eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem in Path of Exile is power creep, "meta builds" that you have to play to be able to do endgame content.

This is a much repeated fallacy, usually by people who haven't really played it much.

POE has numerous end game systems. From mapping to delve, to temple, to incursions, to every other league mechanic added over the last 3+ years. You have some people who just do delve for instance, some who do early mapping to get the temple/incursion/heist etc events. And some who chase high level mapping and Atlas completion. There is so much to do its honestly impossible to conceive of anyone outside of streamers who do it for a job, 'completing' the end game in a given season. So this idea that one must play meta to succeed is utterly false. If you mean you have to play meta builds to beat the Atlas, then yes thats probably true, but as just a tiny minority of players will ever do that anyway why bother limiting yourself?

As an example when I dipped into POE I made 3 builds, followed some basic rules (health and defense thresholds) and was more than capable of running maps up to tier 5 and with a little effort into 6 and 7. This is more than enough to qualify as end game.

Also if you don't think LE's end game will be tuned the same way (as in overtuned difficulty which only a handful of builds will be able to comfortably beat) then I think you are much mistaken. It's already that way to some degree and there isn't even a proper meta yet.

[Ardenian]

RodHull eredeti hozzászólása:

Ardenian eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem in Path of Exile is power creep, "meta builds" that you have to play to be able to do endgame content.

This is a much repeated fallacy, usually by people who haven't really played it much.

POE has numerous end game systems. From mapping to delve, to temple, to incursions, to every other league mechanic added over the last 3+ years. You have some people who just do delve for instance, some who do early mapping to get the temple/incursion/heist etc events. And some who chase high level mapping and Atlas completion. There is so much to do its honestly impossible to conceive of anyone outside of streamers who do it for a job, 'completing' the end game in a given season. So this idea that one must play meta to succeed is utterly false. If you mean you have to play meta builds to beat the Atlas, then yes thats probably true, but as just a tiny minority of players will ever do that anyway why bother limiting yourself?

As an example when I dipped into POE I made 3 builds, followed some basic rules (health and defense thresholds) and was more than capable of running maps up to tier 5 and with a little effort into 6 and 7. This is more than enough to qualify as end game.

Also if you don't think LE's end game will be tuned the same way (as in overtuned difficulty which only a handful of builds will be able to comfortably beat) then I think you are much mistaken. It's already that way to some degree and there isn't even a proper meta yet.

Tier 5 maps in Path of Exile is barely tapping your toes into endgame. Starting with yellow maps at Tier 6, your build has to be viable and heavily refined or you won't beat a single conqueror in a reasonable time. If you invest everything into healthpoints and resistances and then kite a boss for half an hour, if that's your thing, sure, but if you look at "true" endgame, like Sirus endgame boss, Simulacrum arena and T19 Delirium, there is no way you are doing that without following the meta at least to some extent.

After playing PoE for thousands of hours, I have made enough characters to know that even if you don't really know what you are doing, you can go through the campaign and some white maps, but that's it. From there on it is meta or goodbye.

In Last Epoch, we have yet to see something like this. Since characters are so easy to respec skills and character in Last Epoch, you can fix mistakes quite easily and don't have to start over, in difference to Path of Exile. Try asking in global chat for 50 Orb of Regrets to reset your skill tree and follow a more viable meta for your build, people will laugh at you.

[Uncle Badass]

The problem with PoE is how they just keep adding more and more and more and more rebalancing the entire game to take the new content into account when theorizing how players will play the same, so the amount of things you're required to get into are ever increasing with no end in sight, it gets so tiresome.

[Katspajamas]

Ardenian eredeti hozzászólása:

RodHull eredeti hozzászólása:

This is a much repeated fallacy, usually by people who haven't really played it much.

POE has numerous end game systems. From mapping to delve, to temple, to incursions, to every other league mechanic added over the last 3+ years. You have some people who just do delve for instance, some who do early mapping to get the temple/incursion/heist etc events. And some who chase high level mapping and Atlas completion. There is so much to do its honestly impossible to conceive of anyone outside of streamers who do it for a job, 'completing' the end game in a given season. So this idea that one must play meta to succeed is utterly false. If you mean you have to play meta builds to beat the Atlas, then yes thats probably true, but as just a tiny minority of players will ever do that anyway why bother limiting yourself?

As an example when I dipped into POE I made 3 builds, followed some basic rules (health and defense thresholds) and was more than capable of running maps up to tier 5 and with a little effort into 6 and 7. This is more than enough to qualify as end game.

Also if you don't think LE's end game will be tuned the same way (as in overtuned difficulty which only a handful of builds will be able to comfortably beat) then I think you are much mistaken. It's already that way to some degree and there isn't even a proper meta yet.

Tier 5 maps in Path of Exile is barely tapping your toes into endgame. Starting with yellow maps at Tier 6, your build has to be viable and heavily refined or you won't beat a single conqueror in a reasonable time. If you invest everything into healthpoints and resistances and then kite a boss for half an hour, if that's your thing, sure, but if you look at "true" endgame, like Sirus endgame boss, Simulacrum arena and T19 Delirium, there is no way you are doing that without following the meta at least to some extent.

After playing PoE for thousands of hours, I have made enough characters to know that even if you don't really know what you are doing, you can go through the campaign and some white maps, but that's it. From there on it is meta or goodbye.

In Last Epoch, we have yet to see something like this. Since characters are so easy to respec skills and character in Last Epoch, you can fix mistakes quite easily and don't have to start over, in difference to Path of Exile. Try asking in global chat for 50 Orb of Regrets to reset your skill tree and follow a more viable meta for your build, people will laugh at you.

This reply receives a Golden Unicorn Award.
I have thousands of hours into POE and unless you are running red tier maps, you are not in the "endgame" as you will not receive the highest tier loot (good luck with that HeadHunter belt dropping on yellow maps). And by the time you get to red maps...league over and time to start again...
I luvs me some capitalism and walking away from POE due to all the recent server disconnects (too much junk?) and the Chinese purchase.
All in on LE.

[RodHull]

Ardenian eredeti hozzászólása:

After playing PoE for thousands of hours, I have made enough characters to know that even if you don't really know what you are doing, you can go through the campaign and some white maps, but that's it. From there on it is meta or goodbye.

This is highly subjective. Cause you don't consider running tier 6 maps 'end game' does not mean it isn't. That will likely take any new or casual player hundreds of hours to achieve anyway. That you consider tier 19 'true end game' (elitist much?) is more a product of you spending 1000s of hours in it. I have killed every boss including most supers in Grim Dawn, I would not consider killing Ravager as 'the end game' though Im fully aware thats something most casual players wont ever want or need to engage with. Sorry but this just sounds like elitist nonsense. If you can run rare and blue maps (which I could easily) with home brew builds and engage in multiple season mechanics then that for me is 'end game' play, just because someone with 1000s of hours decides only tier 19 is 'true end game' does not mean anything.

Katspajamas eredeti hozzászólása:

I have thousands of hours into POE and unless you are running red tier maps, you are not in the "endgame"

You realise this is because you have 1000s of hours right? A normal new player will likely spend 1000+ hours to reach a point when they can start comfortably doing red maps, how is that not them engaging in end game content? This whole mindset just blows my mind.

Katspajamas eredeti hozzászólása:

And by the time you get to red maps...league over and time to start again...

You dont have to play leagues, you can you know not do that??

Also for both the above do you truly believe that LE's end game will not slowly go the same way? Remember when POE was in beta and there was no mapping? It all felt lovely and quaint then didn't it. Then people like me and you played it for '1000s of hours' demanded more difficulty and the 'true end game' content you are complaining about now is the result. The same will happen here, given time.

[Nakos]

RodHull eredeti hozzászólása:

This is highly subjective. Cause you don't consider running tier 6 maps 'end game' does not mean it isn't. That will likely take any new or casual player hundreds of hours to achieve anyway. That you consider tier 19 'true end game' (elitist much?) is more a product of you spending 1000s of hours in it. ... Sorry but this just sounds like elitist nonsense. If you can run rare and blue maps (which I could easily) with home brew builds and engage in multiple season mechanics then that for me is 'end game' play, just because someone with 1000s of hours decides only tier 19 is 'true end game' does not mean anything.

I concur.

[Katspajamas]

Hahahahaha..we got chumps here in the LE forums defending how good POE is? THEN GO PLAY IT!!!! Hahahahaha

[Focus Up]

I would say Grim Dawn to get the casual play, PoE to get into the time-consuming stuff, this game still has a long way to go.

[RodHull]

Katspajamas eredeti hozzászólása:

Hahahahaha..we got chumps here in the LE forums defending how good POE is? THEN GO PLAY IT!!!! Hahahahaha

I must have missed the memo where we are not allowed to appreciate another game while also liking this one

For the record I don't play POE much cause the online aspect is a turn off for me. I have poor internet and don't really like grouping. But I played enough of it (was in the beta and around 500 hours a year or so ago) to know its a great game.

[QTEEP™]

Both. This game feels more like Diablo though, as in Diablo 2 not 3. Less complicated than POE but still a lot of fun.

[Destro]

Katspajamas eredeti hozzászólása:

Hahahahaha..we got chumps here in the LE forums defending how good POE is? THEN GO PLAY IT!!!! Hahahahaha

GOTTEM! Hahaha! Good one champ!

*brofist*