Help me decide on an ARPG.

[MKristofer]

Since Torchlight III is terrible right now, I'm looking for an ARPG to quench my thirst. I've played TL2 and Diablo 3 before, along with some smaller ARPG titles in different consoles so I'm not really new to the genre.

I'm contemplating between this, Grim Dawn, and Wolcen. I did see some footage of the game a while back and was put off by the terrible character models. While I am fully aware that gameplay always trumps graphical fidelity, I have been playing tons of AAA games recently and so the difference is emphasized and it really looked like a game from a decade ago.

I'm also aware that the character models aren't all that important in ARPGs because of the top down nature that doesn't really show much of the details anyway. So for anyone here who has played all three (Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and Wolcen) I would like to hear your opinion.

[Maximum Sloth]

If you like Warhammer 40K - Inquisitor Martyr is really fun (and the complete edition goes on sale for around $16). Fair warning though - the combat is slower paced and a bit cumbersome feeling. There are 4 classes if you get the complete edition, and each class has 3 subclasses which change your starting armor and weapons. The story is also kind of intriguing if you're into 40k. You can put points into 3 different stats that have different effects based on your class, and also put points into a myriad of "trees" such as "ranged combat" etc., that are unlocked based on your gameplay style. The trees offer increased damage for certain damage types, increased defense etc., but skills depend on your weapons (certain classes can only use certain weapon types). There is no character appearance customization - but you can customize the look and color of your armor. You can play coop but it's subject to the whims of their servers, which at times show deep instability, thus resulting in frustrating lag spikes and loot from missions disappearing from your inventory completely. It has crafting as well - you can craft armor, "innoculators" - healing potions basically (and also modify the effects), weapons, and accessories. There's an endgame centered around grinding for Fate. The graphics are pretty good, not quite AAA but definitely decent.

Grim Dawn is fantastic if you want build variety and lots of loot. It offers the quintessential ARPG experience. You can play coop with mods too, and the coop is peer-2-peer. There is no character appearance customization. You can craft armor, weapons, and accessories. Story is kind of just there, don't recall it being anything memorable.Endgame is grinding for legendaries. The graphics are a bit dated, but not awful by any means.

Wolcen is abysmal in every way imaginable aside from visuals.There is so minimal character appearance customization that it's not even worth mentioning. You can craft armor, weapons, and accessories as far as I know. Their servers are still trash last I checked, so good luck trying to play coop. Endgame is...kind of just weird and awful...not sure what the point of it is aside from padding playtime.

Last Epoch is also great, and shows a lot of promise, but I would wait until it's done/closer to done as it's the only EA game out of those you mentioned. There is no character appearance customization (and I don't think it's planned aside from cosmetic items in the item shop). From what I played the graphics were decent.

Someone also mentioned Van Helsing - 1 and 2 are quite fun ARPGs, but a bit short. I think I beat their stories in about 20-30 hours tops...and there wasn't much endgame. There is no character appearance customization. The graphics are passable for what it is, not awful and they fit the theme.

[Xinister]

Messaggio originale di Vespertellino:

Between those 3 easily Last Epoch, the rest are boring steaming piece of garbo.

Grim Dawn is by far the superior title, not saying this game is bad, but seriously? Look at the reviews for grim dawn?

I mean unless you are an idiot or hate Diablo 2, well then ofc Grim Dawn 2 ain't for you. But Grim Dawn has a ton of content and lore and a good story on top of that..

So dunno if you have any beef with the devs of grim dawn or your computer can't run it, but clearly Grim Dawn is the superior title.

Wolcen ain't bad either it just got a lot of hate because bad launch, and some people apparently moved on and haven't edited their reviews or given the game a chance, hence why Steam user reviews in most cases should be read because yeah people are scum in some cases.

[RodHull]

Messaggio originale di Maximum Sloth:

If you like Warhammer 40K - Inquisitor Martyr is really fun (and the complete edition goes on sale for around $16). Fair warning though

I'd agree with this, I was highly sceptical of Neocores record and the reviews, but a friend on steam convinced me to buy it when it was on sale. And honestly while it definitely has its issues and is far from amazing if you like 40k it does a decent job of representing that game world in a sort of 'lite' take on the hack and slash genre.

[momurda]

Grim Dawn is the best arpg ever created. This one is fun, but i may not give it 2k hours like GD.

[Gargoyle's Bite]

Messaggio originale di momurda:

Grim Dawn is the best arpg ever created. This one is fun, but i may not give it 2k hours like GD.

Laughs in Diablo II.

[Gunther Ultrabolt Novacrunch]

I've changed my mind. Go Grim Dawn. 11th Hour Games (Last epoch) devs have deemed it wise to release valuable obscure and above all, rare affixes on gear but offering us little in the way of being able of noticing them. So as a result you're forced to tediously scan hundreds/thousands of mostly crap items to perfect your build. So...Until they release their much touted "robust" loot filter (which I am sure will be awesome). Last Epoch (in my opinion) will become a seriously tedious slog, especially in the current end game.

[Intrinsic]

Messaggio originale di Ocular.:

Messaggio originale di momurda:

Grim Dawn is the best arpg ever created. This one is fun, but i may not give it 2k hours like GD.

Laughs in Diablo II.

D2 is that nostalgia factor, if it were released today it'd not be considered that great.

[Gargoyle's Bite]

Messaggio originale di ;2788243451443986677:

Messaggio originale di Ocular.:

Laughs in Diablo II.

D2 is that nostalgia factor, if it were released today it'd not be considered that great.

If it released today with plugy and 1080p, slightly updated graphics it would be the best arpg.

Especially considering it already is even without all that.

[RodHull]

Messaggio originale di Goathulu:

Messaggio originale di Ocular.:

Laughs in Diablo II.

D2 is that nostalgia factor, if it were released today it'd not be considered that great.

That's a bad argument, that's like saying if Shakespeare was a playwright today his work would be considered run of the mill.

Which is probably true, but he isn't and his work was done 100s of years ago. Not to mention that D2 even with the dulling of time remains one of the best (if not the best) arpg on the market. There is a reason a team of people are for example remaking D2 as a mod for Grim Dawns engine.

[Jean]

Messaggio originale di RodHull:

Not to mention that D2 even with the dulling of time remains one of the best (if not the best) arpg on the market.

As someone who spent a few thousands hours playing D2 when it was the best of the genre in an otherwise very bare field I can't help but chuckle at this, it's just bad now in many aspects. Playing it and its spinoffs in 2020 is 95% nostalgia, which is okay, but could apply to any game people latched on to in their youth. The fact that it needs mods and spinoff to make it palatable to modern audience only reinforce that.

[RodHull]

Messaggio originale di Jean:

The fact that it needs mods and spinoff to make it palatable to modern audience only reinforce that.

Its a completely faithful mod, it adds very little new at all. It's just a modern engine and graphics. But to each their own.

[[LWT]Karpiu]

No sane person would ever compare D2 depth and mechanics with Grim Dawn, tone down the nostalgia a bit. I love D2, it was my favorite game for a very, very long time, but Grim Dawn is on a whole another level when it comes to possibilities. It just isn't Diablo, that's why you think Diablo 2 is better. But it's not, purely mechanics/depth/content wise. It was mind-blowing 20 years ago though and ahead of its time. Out of all ARPG's (past and present), only PoE has more depth and content (but it's a different kind too), you have PoE and GD, then a huge gap, then everything else. Don't be delulu. We can only hope, that Last Epoch will be up there and complete the top 3 ARPG's, everything is looking good so far. Diablo 4 is a mystery and far, far away, PoE 2 doesn't count, cause it's more of a revision than a new game and Wolcen is totally out of question and needs no commentary.

[^7ja^1co]

Grim Dawn is the only option - its full of content and polished.

Wolcen - wait till the end of the year.
Last Epoch - oh god, faaaaaaaar away from being really good.

[Something]

You could always go back to where it all started. Experience what the grandfather of ARPG's are like and play Diablo 1. GOG has Diablo 1 + Hellfire fully updated to work on modern OS's so it's definitely worth a pick up. Also I think GOG is only asking like 10 bucks. For 10 bucks USD you can't go wrong with the game that gave birth to the ARPG genre.

Then you can grab Diablo 2 and it's expansion Lord of Destruction and see what it's like when a developer takes an amazing game and elevates it to new heights. I suggest not going into Diablo 1 and 2 though assuming it's like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 was such a deviation from the original design that, while right now it's a good game on it's own, it pales in comparison to the two games that are rightfully credited for giving the gaming world arguably one of the best genres.

Hype mode aside, Diablo 1 and 2 are fantastic games. The graphics are dated absolutely, and neither game runs at 1920x1080 resolution, but even barring the lack of those modern comforts, I say if you're a fan of ARPG's you owe it to yourself to play them at least once. Plus you can pick them both up for the price of Last Epoch and still have like 5 bucks left over.

[RodHull]

Messaggio originale di ^7ja^1co:

Wolcen - wait till the end of the year.
Last Epoch - oh god, faaaaaaaar away from being really good.

Wolcen - wait forever it will never be good and was never at any point in its development even as good as LE is now

Last Epoch - not ready yet by the developers own admissions, lacking all its art and character classes, acts not done fully done yet, no proper end game etc but this is in active development but what is there so far is better than Wolcen even after its 'release'