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On every other aspects, Grim Dawn is a better choice.
Last Epoch isn't a fully released game as Grim Dawn so compare both is impossible.
I can still say that on some topics Last Epoch is or will be better:
- Character building, even in an unfinished state, Last Epoch puts Grim Dawn very far behind.
- Crafting, both have a good crafting system, but Last Epoch system is overall better even if some crafting mechanism of Grim Dawn are very cool.
On everything else Grim Dawn is better than current state of Last Epoch which is an Early Access game. Potentially I believe Last Epoch can achieve something better for those aspects:
- Combats, but only release state of Last Epoch will confirm or not.
- Drops for which Grim Dawn has a solid system but still far from Torchlight 1&2 and Diablo 2&3. Last Epoch has an unfinished system so it could end with something better than Grim Dawn, but for now it's far from it.
- Look and Tourism value, but I have doubts because Grim Dawn setups the bar rather high.
I see no chance that Last Epoch do better than Grim Dawn on those aspects:
- Exploration
- Story telling, even if Grim Dawn is quite behind Diablo 2&3.
- RPG mood, it's just rather unique in Diablo like, and clearly Last Epoch doesn't bother and focus on classical values of the genre.
EDIT:
OP didn't quoted:
- PoE, I'm not fan of it, but I would agree on its overall value even without considering it is free on base and micro transactions are totally non invasive.
- Torchlight 1 or it puts it in the list of smaller title it also played. Even if I agree that it's hard to compare Torchlight 1&2 because it's almost like TL2 did everything better and on a larger scale. Still in my opinion Torchlight 1 achieves something unique not repeated with Torchlight 2. It's the only Diablo like evoking that much original Doom. For a player like me, very old, it's juicy, it's a combats gameplay exploiting much more true dodging than anticipate dodging based more more on constant movements and reaction movements. Alas I suppose such gameplay is dead and younger players which include now many already old or they think so (but they'll realize they was wrong in twenty years), just feel it slow and not thrilling enough, and can't appreciate the value.
- Diablo 2, but even if it is certainly above all on many design aspects of Dialbo like genre, it has also killing obsolete aspect, mainly, boredom tiny inventory, awful controls design, bad graphics very outdated, and older game as Baldur's Gate 1 look hugely better.
But that's it for me major Diablo like is only Torchlight 1&2, Diablo 2&3, Grim Dawn, PoE, and soon Last Epoch.
Others don't qualify:
- For Wolcen not played yet, it looks a lot like a sub par Diablo like with a well done focus on story telling.
- Titan Quest has awful combats overall, and the game derail in repetitions and fillers abuse in many dungeons at least past half of game.
- Diablo 1 is just the first, it's now a sub par game in the genre, and that it has a more horror mood than all won't change it is very weak on any other aspects.
- Sacred is boredom repetitive, could never play it much, eventually even worse combats than Titan Quest.
- Fate is the only deep procedurally generated Diablo like after Diablo 2, but far behind Diablo 2. Its combats are a bit unique by exploiting well this aspect and a classic dungeon design, the pet system and fishing system was top cool ideas, and some aspects are still better done than in Torchlight 1&2. But let face it, it's far from the top list I quoted.
- Zombasite is one of my favorite Diablo like because it merges light sim, light but real aspects of world dynamically changing, and a quite fun and unique Diabo like control system based on Real Time Pause, or more exactly Real Time with micro pause once you learn play such unique system. Moreover compared to Din's Curse suffering of static skills, this game started add dynamic skills merging movement aspects and attack/defense skills, plus more interesting control skills.
- Din's Curse is a unique game from same dev than Zombasite and same very unique control system, it achieves better the dynamic world aspect but the price is heavy on either a huge high constant stress, either you learn relaitivize and it just stops work at all. There's the new Din's Legacy but I haven't played it yet, I never been that much fan of Din's Curse despite some impressive design aspects, and I can't recover on the sells failure of Zombasite that most dev fans ended not like when for me it's best game of dev.
- Van Helsing, the games do many things in interesting ways, but the combats design is awfully naive and weak, obviously the dev have no idea of what combat depth can mean in Diablo like.
I wouldn't quote much more for Diablo like. For ARPG that aren't Diablo like nor are true full fledged RPG but more Diablo inspired, there are noteworthy games, but in general they use controls working better with gamepad and I don't like gamepad.
This, GD's skill system is a bunch of boring passives with a couple of boring repetitive actives, Epoch is much better in that regard
Diablo 3 system reducing character building to equipment building and a skill subset choice isn't any more character building so the game is disqualified for that aspect.
Dialbo 2 had an interesting approach of character building, and sort of still unique even if half copied a lot, but the game is so obsolete.
Titan Quest had a quite good character building, alas combats design is so weak, skills are so static for combats.
For character building, there's only PoE to try compete with Last Epoch, I'm not a PoE expert but for me despite in EA, Last Epoch already closed the debate and is already much better on that aspect. If not yet fully, it's just for a tuning perspective to balance better and remove some OP holes.
The reason is Diablo like after Diablo like, past Diablo 2 and Torchlght 2, they fail design combats and combat systems exploiting more than 3 active skills. This is leading to the funeral of the genre, because the only strength of this very unique control system (beside a full design adaptation to mouse and keyboard controls) is the potential for many active skills during combats. But let face it, with 4 or even 5 active skills, gamepad can master it much better and offers much more fluid movements, so if you plan design such game, and still stick to 3 or even 4 fully active skills during combats, a non Diablo like genre will do it better even if at price of forced gamepad use.
In way way Dialbo like genre evolution lead itself to its death and eventually perhaps for an effort of console compatibility. But really money is powerful to make believe that a game can play as well with so different controls systems than keyboard+mouse and gamepad, it's so absurd non sense, that it shows how money is powerful to hide it to all, dev to players.
Torchlight is in the same basket as GD obviously.
D3's skills and legendaries are fun to use and can change your gameplay substantially, depending on what you build. It's not just spec'ing points into the same passive 15 times to get slightly more dmg. D3 is a good example on how passive skills should work, instead of just adding x damage on y chance when you basic attack. If you disqualify it for the reason that game has diverse and interesting equipment, you're a terrible moron tbh.
Also it's probably the only game of the bunch, that has actual skill synergies, and not just a set of skills that might or might not compliment each other.
As for LE vs POE I'd still say POE is better, I don't think LE will be able to surpass it, but who knows?
lack of skills, lack of depth, itemization is garbage, and it being a mobile game ported to pc all make it less than desirable.
(little history lesson on TL3, it was originally a mobile game that was reworked into a f2p PC game that was then reworked into a b2p pc game)
TL3 was never a mobile game I dont think, it was originally going to be a full on ARPGMMO developed with help from Perfect World but at some point it was turned into TL:F then later became TL:3 when they dropped nearly all the MMO related stuff. It does look bad though I'll give you that.
NOT WOLCEN do not give those thieves and charlatans your money for that awful mess of a game. It went from 130k players to under 1k players in a few weeks, that should tell you all you need to know about Wolcen.
Buy literally any game other than Wolcen.
That is all.
Yes all 129500 of us are wrong the 500 people left playing it are clearly right :/
You are free to enjoy whatever you wish but this is factually untrue, if you loaded the game up you have experienced a bug of some type as even to this day a large portion of the skills and passives are bugged in terms of their core behaviour. That you dont recognise or care about those bugs is entirely your choice, but they are there.
Not a question of whos right and wrong, its just a fact. If you have played Wolcen for more than 20 hours used most of the passives and skills, completed the game (which you claim you have) then you absolutely HAVE encountered a bug, even if you weren't aware of it or didn't care about it.