Really hyped for the game untill i saw microtransactions

[meeesj]

Huge red flag for me. mtx is bad in any game imo, and especially in games like this were how your character looks is a big part of the game.

Even if its "just cosmetics" it still affects the game negatively. This is an arpg, the main draw of games like this is to gradually kit up your character both in terms of power and visuals so to relegate such a big part of the game to microtransactions really takes the fuel out of it imo.

I hope they are going to try keep a healthy balance between ingame cosmetics and mtx cosmetics, but this is almost never the case. The ingame cosmetics needs to take a dent in visuals to make the mtx cosmetics more appealing thus weakening one of the main pillars that makes these games exticiting.

I would much rather pay more for the game itself at release and have no mtx. 30$, 40$ or even 50$ if the content is there.

Still looking forward to the game but not with the same enthusiasm.

[B.U.R.T]

AtmaShinobi の投稿を引用：

why not just pay for you know... CONTENT. not buying mtx to support future content. essentially forced to buy mtx to support further content development and who knows if that content will even be good. So I have to buy mtx to support future content that i have no idea if its even worth my money. MTX is predatory. if you cant see that youre simple minded and its people like you all why mtx and loot crates became so prevalent in gaming with your "it doesnt bother me so who cares" attitude. Donating is for kickstarters, once the game is DONE and released, as a consumer I want to pay "x" dollars for "y" content and knowing what that content is. why would i donate to a company who promises to add future content with that money but what if its not content im interested in. If it was a paid expansion youd know what included and if it isnt your cup of tea you dont gotta buy it. with mtx you are buying stuff to support unkown future content that i may not even want to play, therefore wasting my money.

if the game forces you to buy MTX to get ahead or "P2W" then yes, it is predatory and a cancer in the industry that needs to be eliminated, especially if you buy the game and it has MTX in it that forces you to buy boosters or other crap like that, otherwise you are stuck grinding for eternity

on the other hand, as others stated, if the MTX is purely cosmetic and you are enjoying the game in it's current state and see a cosmetic that you like, you have a CHOICE to buy the cosmetic and support the devs, or not, because the core game, you can already do everything.

when you say you want to pay "x" dollars for "y" content, because you don't want to donate/support the devs because of the "unknown", and when the devs release free updates that make the game even better and you very much enjoy the games update, will you then go back and make a MTX purchase? or are you still going to free ride off others that supported the devs with their MTX/donation while calling the same people that supported the devs "the problem"?

[Dreadmoon "Nescera"]

AtmaShinobi の投稿を引用：

why not just pay for you know... CONTENT. not buying mtx to support future content. essentially forced to buy mtx to support further content development and who knows if that content will even be good. So I have to buy mtx to support future content that i have no idea if its even worth my money. MTX is predatory. if you cant see that youre simple minded and its people like you all why mtx and loot crates became so prevalent in gaming with your "it doesnt bother me so who cares" attitude. Donating is for kickstarters, once the game is DONE and released, as a consumer I want to pay "x" dollars for "y" content and knowing what that content is. why would i donate to a company who promises to add future content with that money but what if its not content im interested in. If it was a paid expansion youd know what included and if it isnt your cup of tea you dont gotta buy it. with mtx you are buying stuff to support unkown future content that i may not even want to play, therefore wasting my money.

what? you want pay for content but not for mtx which support new content?

you pay for new content and get mtx for free,

maybe you should change your mind about that.

[AtmaShinobi]

theres a difference between mtx shops and paying for expansion updates/season passes. sorry, i just come from a different era of gamers i suppose. and again, almost always, the best looking cosmetics are only sold via real life currencies. Look, im not saying im not willing to pay to support a games development, otherswise why would i have paid 30$ for this games e.a? Im stating my opinion that paying for expansions to games is a better investment than mtx purchases. But if mtx purchases are the only way to support further content development that alienates a lot of people who dont agree with the mtx approach but still want to pay for content. by content i mean story progression, game modes, loot, lvl caps, anything other than cosmetics. Sure i can buy $50 worth of cosmetics to support gameplay content, but how do we know what that content will be, why would i invest money to support development of something that i may seem as a waste. If a expansion came out that i didnt have interest in i wouldnt buy it, at least i know what content is being sold. the opposite goes for mtx supported development. we buy stuff to support further in game content to play without even knowing what that content will take form as. thats naive and ignorant consumer approach. imo

[AtmaShinobi]

Anthem went the same approach, free updates supported by the mtx shop, and just about all the content that came out was lack luster reusing already in game assets.

[AtmaShinobi]

I know mtx will be in game. i understand. I just hope that will not be the only way to support the game financially. to me its not meaningful way to spend my money. in a sense it is like gambling. fork out money for some small immediate gains in hopes of something larger and greater to come out.

[burner19]

AtmaShinobi の投稿を引用：

Anthem went the same approach, free updates supported by the mtx shop, and just about all the content that came out was lack luster reusing already in game assets.

So you dont buy mtx simple. Nobody is twisting your arm. I think that mtx aproach is much stable and safer way for dev to maintain stady income to pay for the developers work. Most people are saying that it should be like the old days and pay for the expansion but i disagree. I watched a nice documentary about making games and the costs are not comparably higher to make games now than it were in than. You can do expansions only but it is much riskier for a indie team to do so. I mean i realy hate p2w but OPTIONAL mtx isnt doing anyone any harm.

[Et3rnus]

MTX is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't provide an actual ingame benefit. Also, considering it's only Single Player anyways, who the hell cares, it's not like you're going to verse people in PvP and whales will kill you. This seems like such an extremely pedantic complaint. It also *might* ensure future content, because people that like the game will support it through buying MTX (look at PoE, MTX guarantees a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of content.)

[B.U.R.T]

Et3rnus の投稿を引用：

MTX is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't provide an actual ingame benefit. Also, considering it's only Single Player anyways, who the hell cares, it's not like you're going to verse people in PvP and whales will kill you. This seems like such an extremely pedantic complaint. It also *might* ensure future content, because people that like the game will support it through buying MTX (look at PoE, MTX guarantees a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of content.)

it's only single player for now, and honestly I would like to see some type of PvP that is done well, but yes, putting in MTX for whales to get ahead with the best gear/skills/stats just for them to dominate you because they spent a lot of money is terrible and I would in a heartbeat stop supporting the game any further

[B.U.R.T]

AtmaShinobi の投稿を引用：

I know mtx will be in game. i understand. I just hope that will not be the only way to support the game financially. to me its not meaningful way to spend my money. in a sense it is like gambling. fork out money for some small immediate gains in hopes of something larger and greater to come out.

they way I see it, if I am really enjoying a game and put in a lot of hours and still have as much fun, then getting a cosmetic is not really a gamble or bad investment, I look at it as one of those supporter packs a lot of other games sell that has some kind of special look or something and the description for the pack literally states it as a supporter pack,

I am by no means a shill for this game or trying to tell you how you should spend your own money, but I have been enjoying it for what it is even during the beta stages, and if for some reason down the line, god forbid, they start walking on a more greedy/predatory road then I am sure I won't be the only one to call them out

[TheLightningYu | Mike]

Vin の投稿を引用：

PoE has a cash shop and is F2P. so why is it that this game needs to charge up front if they are going to use F2P monetization?

Because Last Epoch will offer a offline Mode. So they need atleast some sort of revenue to get Money for their Work from that part of Playerbase. And by the way we're talking about a freaking 15 Bucks Game (at Release)... i mean do some math... look at how much work is spent already on it, it's not even as simplistic like Torchlight, but have many complex features already, than later for multiplayer and release on proper dedicated servers. Offline-Playability. And than then we'll see how they tackle post-launch content support, but i can't help and remember them saying in a FAQ that they planned alot of free post launch content support financed via MTX.

It's good to have principles and stick to it, but sometimes you need to take a step back and look at stuff at a different angle. In a perfect world i would with you. I myself prefer Games to go the Diablo 2 way in terms of Systems and Monetization. Means: Singleplayer, Lan MP, Open Battlenet and closed Battlenet with dedicated Server. for one Price only, and each additional Piece of Content delievered with proper Expansions.

But this isn't a perfect World... we've a Market which oversaturated by ARPG's, many upcoming ones too, two of the biggest competitors, one run by one of the biggest Companys in the world, another one which have a solid foot in the F2P market(and everyone who thinks it's so easy to go F2P and be successfull is delusional, most F2P needs insane MTX Stuff to keep alive), and that's why you need to make hard decisions.

I hear this insane comparison with Grim Dawn? Well, the thing is Grim Dawn is on a different spot than what Last Epoch wants to be. Crate wanted to Primarly create a ARPG for Singleplayer, NOT Multiplayer... and added a basic (barebones) Peer2Peer MP as an Extra. They aren't bound to constant income and moneyflow, because they simply decided to deliever Expansions and Stuff as long as it sell it and worth it, but for them it's not a big deal when they finish the work and move on to their next Project (City Builder, other Projects, maybe someday Grim Dawn 2).

Last Epoch however want's to give besides the Option of a offline Singleplayer, an online-enviroment. Means Dedicated Servers, post-launch-content support, online functionality like bazaar, i guess seasons and events and stuff.That all requires a constant cashflow.

[meeesj]

matke587 の投稿を引用：

Would you prefer a monthly sub?...at least with MTX you have a choice. To buy or not to buy that is the question!

Like I have already said before, MTX only becomes a real pain when you have to pay to win!

Pay to look pretty does not effect the gameplay at all, so stop saying it does! If you think otherwise, then tell me how it's going to give you an advantage fighting monsters, in the campaign or in the monoliths and arena!

IMO if the game is singleplayer/offline, peer2peer multiplayer etc then the game should have a boxcost, and paid dlc/expansions down the line if the devs choose to.

If the game is online with dedicated servers and aims do have regular content updates, then the game should have a subscription type model with maybe paid annual expansion or something depending on the scope of the game.

These types of monetization doesnt compromise any of the existing gameplay systems already in place. With microtransactions however regardless if its cosmetic only, this will happen. The devs can say over and over that "We wont do this!" but the fact is that if the game remains untouched and they introduce mtx, the mtx wouldnt serve any function. No one would buy cosmetics mtx if you could get just as cool or way cooler cosmetics items through gameplay.

how i miss the days when a cool cosmetic meant you were actually good at the game and not that you asked your mom for 20$.

[Michael]

Personally, I'll never understand this sudden trend of how games have this need to always be online. I'm just glad that an offline mode at least exists, otherwise I wouldn't even be following this project. I also don't understand the argument against the traditional peer-to-peer method for multiplayer. ARPGs are not intended to be played like MMORPGs. Why then, do all these newer hack and slashes feel the need to artificially create some sort of false persistent world?

Okay. That being said, let's say many folks prefer connecting to an official, 24/7 public server for..."reasons." Even if that is the case - and even setting aside the fact that Blizzard used to have both an open and closed public server option at no cost other than the price of their games and expansions in the late 90's and early 00's when they were still a tiny company with limited resources and cashflow - why not simply do this: Charge a nominal subscription for official servers only. Otherwise, folks can either set up their own 3rd party server, or connect p2p the old fashioned way. And there you go. The costs of server upkeep have been completely eliminated from the dev's side, and the base cost of the game funds all future products - just like how these darn things are supposed to be paid for.

[burner19]

Michael の投稿を引用：

the base cost of the game funds all future products - just like how these darn things are supposed to be paid for.

This sentence is total bs. You know why. I watched documentary on development of games now and the costs are much,much, MUCH higher than they were during development of diablo 2. If they would go full product and expansion only no mtx (even without servers ) than they would have to sell it for the price of 100 $ to earn money. They are not a huge AAA studio that will sell milions of copies. Reality is that the price of the games almost didnt changed over the years but the cost of making tham did very much and you wouldnt pay 100$ for a game.

[InstableMonster]

AtmaShinobi の投稿を引用：

Anthem went the same approach, free updates supported by the mtx shop, and just about all the content that came out was lack luster reusing already in game assets.

yeah use one game where it went badly to prove your point and ignoring that ones that dont like PoE

[AtmaShinobi]

i dont play PoE so why would i compare it to something i have 0 xp with? and Poe is free to play. Anthem was not.