Optimal start locations?

[Serulin]

Curious as to what others consider the optimal route for storing up long term bonuses in the campaign. Ideally being able to solve each map crisis quickly and spend more time moving back the dark lord army.

1. For 1 I think Island due to the bonus from the event being massive and the small build area being less of a hindrance when you don't have as much mana to build with.

2. Forest probably. I don't think you will have the shadow/light mana to take out the minstrel fast on castle yet.

3 castle town. I believe after 3 you can no longer do starters and it should not be too hard to rush either light or dark to lock up the minstrel.

4. Maybe swamp here and focus on gathering shadow to use with zombies to push back dark lord progress while passively gaining rep.

5. Idk if dessert is still available, but seemed to have minor penalties so maybe it if able.

Not sure on last ones. This list is just what comes to mind based on the levels I have played. Castle is a terrible start because minstel is a pain that is much easier dealt with later. I feel like forest is somewhat similar in that assassins or a bit more mana would help, but maybe having a bot of gains from a forest run would help get the island event faster for larger gains in that map.

[worstcase11]

1. Forest is the best first map in my opinion - might be a sink for nature and arcane mana but
still the only requirement is not to wake up the troll.

2. Desert is a good second area with the wishes assisting the school in middle of it.

3. I like to delay the Lake area to the 3rd map, because it is easier to gather the dragons fast. (it is not available as 2nd area)

4. Coast - if you have the Sports Almanach at this point this map is a breeze doesn't give great help in the final battle though.

(- Castle town sucks as a start area - honestly x_x the menestrel really sucks away the good futures until you can shut that down and it is damn hard to get the neccessary cards together. The only reason I visit that map is because the menestrel makes the final battle easier. Took it on 4th map last time and it still sucked.)

5. Swamp is pretty awesome - the Skeletons can help you push back the Evil Army as often as you like without you having to rebuild friendship in between. Also great assistance with setting up black magic curriculum.

[Serulin]

Can castle be 4th?

I think I want to redo a run on hard, I assume there is no bonus for finishing a campaign? On like map 5 of normal. Idk maybe I triple speed to the end to see what the final battle is like. I just kinda want to min max now though.

[worstcase11]

@Serulin: If you play in challenge mode you unlock special cards if you win the campaign.
Also there is an achievement for winning campaign in hard mode.

(And yeah I think I just played castle in level 4 on my last campaign)

[Nizaha]

The penalty for the Ministrel is really overstated and is not that big of a deal. Don't go village first since you will definitely struggle to meet the requirements to get rid of the -15% learning penalty, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. On my current playthrough I went village 2nd and met the 2 prisons + 1 orc dog requirement by year 3. Orc dog requirement is easy (there's a random event during orc diplomacy that can give you an orc dog for I think 50 gold) and I usually get prisons through card draw regularly enough that it's not a problem.

[worstcase11]

Sheyra: It took me 6 years on the 4th map on archmage difficulty (marathon) to get that debuff from the menestrel shut down and in all that time I didn't get a single permanent future bonus because my students were goofing off so much.) Admittedly I was doing a challenge where some cards were replaced with potions but the difference to the other levels in performance was significant.

[Nizaha]

In my experience the early students are mostly just good for getting your prestige up anyways so I don't think it's a huge deal even if they are less efficient. Also I think the penalty is just -15% learning rate isn't it? If there's an additional issue with students misbehaving, you could just deal with it via strict discipline until you get rid of the penalty and deal with a little extra boredom.

[worstcase11]

@Sheyra: It is not misbehaving in form of void gates or fires - the students leave the school for hours to hang out in the castle town without even having special needs that are not met. Stricter discipline does nothing against that.

[Serulin]

It is not that ministrel is that difficult to deal with, but that he become a joke later in tue game. For many map obstacles, you are still forced to talk to them 5+ times such that earlier or later in the campaign should not matter as much as being able to kick the ministrel out immediately and get a free map to max bonuses.

[MightyFox]

I usually do

1. Lake: It's a good starting area, gives lots of early game mana, is excellent for alchemy and arcane (the schools they literally give you) And the limited (but still decent) build area makes school planning a lot let stressful.

2. Forest: Werewolves. Recruit all werewolves. Early guaranteed nature school. Use lunar mirrors to make even more werewolves. Build assassin dojo to completely troll the troll. Steal gems from troll all the time. Graduate assassins and pack leaders. More werewolves. Laugh at absurd amount of money and nature magic bonuses. Easy three star.

3. Volcano: The increased room fires here are a pain, but not too difficult to deal with if you have enough janitors and void potions. Two choices, Alchemy and Arcane, or Shadow and Light. I typically go for Alchemy and Arcane, as they just have better decks. Building in the back isn't too punishing, but I tend to focus the major schools in the front.

4. Peaks: This level is a pain in the ass, but I like it due to the challenge. None of the starting options are very good, but I typically take the lounge since you need a teacher break area, and you don't always get one in the first couple draws. Alchemy is almost mandatory for potions and infirmary, but events heavily skew towards shadow and light. The back area is worthless. Just can't figure out how to make it work. Very limited front area demands tall and efficient school. Usually only get two stars here.

5. Clouds: The guinea penalty isn't really that hard to deal with, as I tend not to rely too much on diplomacy. Dealing with the harpy, however, is. She wants primo potions, so alchemy and nature are almost a must. Again the map heavily skews towards shadow and light, which frustrates me, because neither school is really all that good here. Two stars if I can't make the harpy (sphinx?) happy, which can be very RNG dependent. The broken building foundation is also a challenge. Top hint: don't build up around your entrance. It's much more efficient to let your students enter from that little space in the middle.

6. Desert/Cliffs: I don't like either of these. The Djinn is okay, but the pirates are too demanding, plus I don't like that the evil lord comes faster. No real 'strategy' here, as both have decent build areas, and neither force a particular focus on any sort of mana. I typically just go with what I'm given. Usually three star.

Swamp: I don't like the swamp. I don't like the focus on diplomacy. I don't like the heavy skewing towards the shadow school. Sanity isn't that hard to deal with. I typically avoid this one unless I'm bored with the others.

Village: I don't like the village. The peasants are a pain, and the bard is just artificial difficulty for the sake of it (because it would be too easy otherwise) Stopping him is largely a matter of RNG. If I play this map, I tend to just ignore him unless I'm selling him mana. Doesn't seem to slow me down that much anyway.

[Leopanther]

Isn't Swamp the easiest to set up as a endless graduating loop? The zombies reduce evil progress for just 600 (I think, or around that amount) shadow mana. You always have this option, as in it's always available and not dependent on other factors. And generating that much shadow mana is a matter of seconds once the school is somewhat built up. May need some pig towers to increase the frequency of messaging the zombies, but in my eyes this would be the easiest way to 'grind' as many graduate passives as possible by constantly delaying the evil's advance timer at the start of a campaign.

[worstcase11]

@Leopanther: I agree, the swamps are a pretty great area to train up the students. It is super easy to set up a black magic curriculum from the start. Though the devs tried to balance the endless playing in one level and it is no longer quite as efficient.
Since the merchants do offer banners of all factions, there are teachers which improve diplomatic ties just by teaching and the demonology room can be used to befriend the dark lord as well, it is no problem to raise enough friendship to complete the zombie friends quest anymore.

[MightyFox]

Originally posted by Leopanther:

Isn't Swamp the easiest to set up as a endless graduating loop? The zombies reduce evil progress for just 600 (I think, or around that amount) shadow mana. You always have this option, as in it's always available and not dependent on other factors. And generating that much shadow mana is a matter of seconds once the school is somewhat built up. May need some pig towers to increase the frequency of messaging the zombies, but in my eyes this would be the easiest way to 'grind' as many graduate passives as possible by constantly delaying the evil's advance timer at the start of a campaign.

They fixed the 'endless' grind potential by making the advance scale up the longer you delay it. I once got it to the point where I'd ask for a delay and the advance would immediately recover what it lost.

[Serulin]

Originally posted by MightyFox:

Originally posted by Leopanther:

Isn't Swamp the easiest to set up as a endless graduating loop? The zombies reduce evil progress for just 600 (I think, or around that amount) shadow mana. You always have this option, as in it's always available and not dependent on other factors. And generating that much shadow mana is a matter of seconds once the school is somewhat built up. May need some pig towers to increase the frequency of messaging the zombies, but in my eyes this would be the easiest way to 'grind' as many graduate passives as possible by constantly delaying the evil's advance timer at the start of a campaign.

They fixed the 'endless' grind potential by making the advance scale up the longer you delay it. I once got it to the point where I'd ask for a delay and the advance would immediately recover what it lost.

If you got it to that point, I am unsure why you would hate on the swamp. Should be THE map for scaling up bonuses along with possibly lake for its 40% learning speed.

[MightyFox]

Originally posted by Serulin:

Originally posted by MightyFox:

They fixed the 'endless' grind potential by making the advance scale up the longer you delay it. I once got it to the point where I'd ask for a delay and the advance would immediately recover what it lost.

If you got it to that point, I am unsure why you would hate on the swamp. Should be THE map for scaling up bonuses along with possibly lake for its 40% learning speed.

I hate on the swamp for personal reasons, as I explained above. That doesn't mean you have to. Ultimately, I'm not a fan of cheesing for the sake of cheesing, unless I can have fun with it, like on the forest level. Just running out the game for more bonuses isn't fun for me, and I don't like the swamps objectives, or aesthetics.

[Serulin]

Originally posted by MightyFox:

Originally posted by Serulin:

If you got it to that point, I am unsure why you would hate on the swamp. Should be THE map for scaling up bonuses along with possibly lake for its 40% learning speed.

I hate on the swamp for personal reasons, as I explained above. That doesn't mean you have to. Ultimately, I'm not a fan of cheesing for the sake of cheesing, unless I can have fun with it, like on the forest level. Just running out the game for more bonuses isn't fun for me, and I don't like the swamps objectives, or aesthetics.

Ah so you don't object from a min-max perspective but from a fun/aesthetic, makes sense.