Can you intercept Nukes?

[Danny]

Pretty simple question but have never been given the chance to allow my aircraft to try intercepting because Ive never had AI's use nukes in my playthroughs. I know in civ revolution there was a building that intercepted them that came way later after nukes have been around.

[Burbot]

It's my understanding that you cannot intercept nukes. The no more nukes proposal is about the best you can do (BNW). Another option is to get to uranium quickly and control the supply as much as you can.

I have not used them myself in a very long time, something about using nukes rubs at my conscence. But I've had AI use them on me and other AI regularly.

[FatalCharm]

The game mechanics do not allow you to intercept nukes. It's been discussed by players, and many -- including myself -- would like to see something introduced to change this (e.g., fighters intercepting planes carrying nuclear payloads, SAM's for nuclear missles, a 'satellite system' to shoot them down, etc.)

I can't remember the specific response from the developers, but it didn't sound like something that was going to happen. I've never seen a mod that addresses this either.

[OwlsNSpace]

If the game mechanics don't allow for the interception of nuclear missiles, that's even more realism worked into the game. As a former ICBM launch commander in the USAF, I'm glad the game doesn't allow this as there is no system in existence that can intercept something moving in the neighborhood of Mach 15-17 upon re-entry (i.e. final approach on the target). Really, the only thing that can intercept a re-entering warhead is the detonation of another warhead lower in the atmosphere. Seriously.

The game's visual of an entire missile's downstage arcing down onto a city is just part of the game. In reality, this is not what occurs. Really, what they should do is have the warhead (not the entire missile) go into partial orbit, orient itself over the target, and then re-enter over the city in question.

Personally, I'd like to see a mod that allows for MIRVs on the missiles :-)

[avil]

You can sugget to ban nukes use at the convention. So political power can intercept nukes, globally.

[Twelvefield]

"Death Wears A Snuggie"

A fairly famous article on this same topic, more or less:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/01/death-wears-a-snuggie/

Civ IV had nuke defenses and nuke-proof bunkers, both of which went a long way to neutralize the awesome destructive power of a nuclear warhead, which in turn neutralized the threat and the whole production process of the weapons in the first place. It was harder to get the uranium, research the technology, build, and deliver the bomb than it was to defend against it. If you wanted to drop a nuke, you had to rush your research and production to get the bombs in transit before everybody had their defenses up.

Beautiful wishful thinking on how to save the world from nuclear holocaust, but like the man said, not realistic.

We can delay a nuclear strike through clever espionage, like the Stuxnet virus --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

-- , or by diplomacy, but you cannot stop it except by wiping out your nuclear-armed enemies. Once those mike foxtrots get built, you don't really unbuild them. Scary stuff, kids.

Fun, too, to think about the declassified American documents that suggested there were what, 700 separate accidents with nuclear weapons in the 1960's alone? Check out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/15/books/review/command-and-control-by-eric-schlosser.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

[mss73055]

Yes you can and it does not make a difference. The nuke will still explode even when shot down.

[Remco]

we need SDI back in the game

[FatalCharm]

Originally posted by ANNOYMYHAT:

If the game mechanics don't allow for the interception of nuclear missiles, that's even more realism worked into the game.

Maybe intercepting missles is unrealistic, but certainly intercepting planes carrying nuclear bombs is possible. Unless I'm mistaken, the people on the Enola Gay had to manually arm the atomic bomb right before they dropped it. So -- theoretically -- if the plane had been shot down before it was able to drop the bomb then the bomb probably would not have detonated.

I understand what you're saying about realism. Remember though, that in our 'real' history the Japanese had problems shooting down B-29's. However, a Civ V game can play out differently. Perhaps my civ is in the Information Era and another civ sends a plane with a nuclear bomb towards my city ... In my opinion jet fighters/stealth fighters/etc. would have a chance to shoot down a B-29.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm sure that you know a great deal more than I do about about the technical specs of military hardware. Just some food for thought ....

[mss73055]

Nagasaki and Hiroshima were deemed of little importance by both Japan and the Allies. Both cities did not take damage until the end of the war, even without defenses against air raids. These cities were targeted to show what a single bomb can do to an undamaged city.

And compared to the destruction in cities like Manilla, Tokyo, Warsawa and Stalingrad the resulting damage was minor. Also back in the days your average fire storm was more damaging to a city than the first few nuclear bombs.

So Enola Gay was not shot down, for the simple reason it was not worth the trouble.

[OwlsNSpace]

Originally posted by FatalCharm:

Originally posted by ANNOYMYHAT:

If the game mechanics don't allow for the interception of nuclear missiles, that's even more realism worked into the game.

Maybe intercepting missles is unrealistic, but certainly intercepting planes carrying nuclear bombs is possible. Unless I'm mistaken, the people on the Enola Gay had to manually arm the atomic bomb right before they dropped it. So -- theoretically -- if the plane had been shot down before it was able to drop the bomb then the bomb probably would not have detonated.

I understand what you're saying about realism. Remember though, that in our 'real' history the Japanese had problems shooting down B-29's. However, a Civ V game can play out differently. Perhaps my civ is in the Information Era and another civ sends a plane with a nuclear bomb towards my city ... In my opinion jet fighters/stealth fighters/etc. would have a chance to shoot down a B-29.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm sure that you know a great deal more than I do about about the technical specs of military hardware. Just some food for thought ....

That's not argumentative at all. :-) My comment earlier really can only refer to any age in which an ICBM is utilized. Now, bombers (e.g. B2s, B29s) are mostly subsonic (except for a handful like the B1-B or the TU-160 Blackjack) and, thus, easily intercepted. SAMs could easily intercept these delivery vehicles, but would have no chance at an re-entering warhead. I should've been more specific.

I did like SDI when it was around. I think I'd support that coming back.

[Burbot]

The realism of intercepting nukes isn't an issue to me. But I am on the side that likes them not having a direct counter in the game. I like the sense of dread (ok, a bit dramatic) when I'm notified that other civs have developed nukes. Building a direct counter would nullify the danger and sense of fear that should surround nukes.

I've never seen nukes change the outcome of the game, just cause a lot of destruction and be a pain to deal with.

[FatalCharm]

Originally posted by Thanter:

The realism of intercepting nukes isn't an issue to me. But I am on the side that likes them not having a direct counter in the game. I like the sense of dread (ok, a bit dramatic) when I'm notified that other civs have developed nukes. Building a direct counter would nullify the danger and sense of fear that should surround nukes.

I've never seen nukes change the outcome of the game, just cause a lot of destruction and be a pain to deal with.

I agree, I'm not wanting something that 'nullifies' them. I would prefer that there were a very small chance to fail though if you invest the production into whatever mechanic they came up with. In other words, I would like it if I had a decision to make about whether or not to spend the time/production building it knowing that even if I do everything right there is still a 90+% chance the nuke will hit me.

Conversely, I think it would add something to the game if I had to launch a nuke knowing that there was not a 100% chance of hitting.

With all that said, my 'preference' for that option is pretty negligable. I'm really happy with the game. This isn't a case where I think, 'man, they REALLY need to add this.'

What I WOULD like to see, is a couple of mods that did the following:

* Add something that would give a player/AI a very small chance to -- for lack of a better term -- destroy the nuke.

* A mod that would allow gifting of nukes to city states. I'd really like to see what that would be like.


I don't think those things can be modded. I dont know that -- but I'm pretty sure. I would think that if it could be modded, someone like WHoward would have done it. If you're never check out his mods, do yourself a favor and visit:

http://www.picknmixmods.com/main/home/home.html

[Polar Legion]

if you had any electronics in your city then whe you intercepted them th emp wold destroy that stuff sevrly hurting you city more than he loss of population

[Danny]

Great discussion guys. I too prefer they not have a direct counter, I like the soft counter provided from the World Congress. Although a few alternatives might be nice like being able to ban strategic rescources (not sure if thats already possible)

[Twelvefield]

If you're going to build an SDI, which was Reagan-era science fiction, then there should also be the chance that a nuke succesfully deployed sets off all the nukes on a continent or hemisphere, or even the world, as in Dr. Strangelove. Equally likely science fiction. Not that I am against science fiction in the game, I love the GDRs, but the SDI is just too much of a counter for the nuke.

The threat of the nuke is balanced between wanton destruction of a city plus the terror that generates. Fear makes nukes truly offensive weapons, especially when used defensively. Build an SDI, you take away the fear.