Do Declarations of Friendships Cause More Harm Than Good?

[DrewReaLee]

I am beginning to think declarations is just a way the AI can screw you. I made a declaration with Inca and they asked for a luxury resource which I granted them. If I didn't give them help, they would end up getting angry. However, one of my spies discovered that they were plotting a sneak attack against me.

Not too much later some neutral players got angry with me for declaring friendship with the Incas. After denouncing the Incas, my longtime ally Rome got angry with me even though I helped them out as well. I am about to go to war with the Incas because they are staging troops near my border. What is the actual benefit of the declaration? It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of option.

[Condemned^1[hsma]^7]

sounds about right

[thedUWUmslayer]

Theres alot of variables there. If the game has been pretty violent, then taking sides with the ai is a bad idea, you're better off just isolating yourself. But I've had games were almost every player had DoF with each other, and there was nothing but peace, because the few civs who were on the outside were too scared to attack.

[mvon007]

I've only seen two occasions where the AI outright went back on a declaration of friendship and attacked me, but one does get an awful lot of "I wouldn't get too close to xx if I were you", and I'm sure that feeds into future actions.

I tend to make friends with all the AI civs that ask me, and then get requests to go to war with civs I'm really really far away from, and they are disappointed if I don't, and eventually everyone is angry if I do. The AI needs work, as we all know :).

[Twelvefield]

France built a massive statue for the Americans, which became one of the most enduring symbols of American culture. A few dozen years later, the American leadership changed the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" in their cafeterias. True story. Moral: declarations of friendship are more like declarations of national gullibility. Sometimes they work out, usually in the early to mid game, but by the end game all bets are off, like pandoradog22 said especially if there's been lots of war.

[Zoomy]

Main benefit of the DoF is (in Brave New World at least) you need it to perform Research Agreements. Also, a DoF can stop the AI from attacking you, at least for a while.

[Ryika]

In general, if you're playing it right DoFs can be a very strong tool, especially with the new AI in Brave New World - but that depends largely on who you sign it with. I had games where me and my 3 neighbours all had DoFs the whole time and no one ever tried to sneak-attack or backstab me, although my military strength was... well... non-existant. They felt more like warmongering protectors that stopped everyone from endangering my tech victory by invading the world.

And on higher difficulties, you will need DoFs anyway (if you're playing brave new world). It's nearly impossible to catch up in tech if you don't have the chance to sign research agreements - and if your neighbours are all friends except for you... guess who's getting attacked. ;) Or if you don't have friends and omeone who HAS friends denounces you, prepare for the whole world to denounce you, too.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by DrewReaLee:

I am beginning to think declarations is just a way the AI can screw you. I made a declaration with Inca and they asked for a luxury resource which I granted them. If I didn't give them help, they would end up getting angry. However, one of my spies discovered that they were plotting a sneak attack against me.

They don't get angry if you don't gift them resources. See it as an optional relationship boost. As for the sneak attack, some civs are more loyal and honourable then others. Pacha is not one of those civs. He's quite insane actually.

Not too much later some neutral players got angry with me for declaring friendship with the Incas. After denouncing the Incas, my longtime ally Rome got angry with me even though I helped them out as well.

AI players don't generally like it if you're friends with a civ they dislike but they can live with it. What they truly hate is backstabbers. I think it's one of the biggest 'crimes' you can commit. It doesn't matter how awful Pacha was, it sounds like you backstabbed him by breaking the DoF with a denouncement and now nobody trusts you.

What you should have done is to wait for Pacha to start a war with you. That way he would've gotten all the hate and you would be perfectly fine. But now it's the other way around because you denounced him for (seemingly) no reason.

[Martin]

Before signing agreements or making friends with everyone, either have a big army or check the civs out via diplomacy, you can see what policies they're taken etc This will give you some idea who will side with who ie honor with honor, pious with pious etc.. but you also need to learn who the natural enemies of civs are, could do with these being published somewhere, maybe civwiki.

But overall I prefer step one, have a big army. Anyone decides they dont trust you.. kill them. If that's the whole world.. boo hoo to the world... kill em all.

[alrkitty]

dof are useful and don't cause any issue if you know what your doing. first pay attention to who dislikes the one wanting to make the declartion and if you don't want to be their enemy then don't make the declartion. but usually I have a really easy time staying friendly with everyone. probably becuase they are all scared of me even though I never attack.

denoucing without reason always gets everyone mad at you works to your disadvantage. I tend to leave that function alone.

civ's don't tend to ask for anything you aren't able to give in resources. they don't get angry if you turn them down but you do earn an added friendly bonus that they remember for a long time. the key to staying friendly is more green than red...except for some civ's for some reason some just wont be friendly no matter how green they are. like alexander the annoying.

now on the war front I think it is best to wait to your friends want to go to war agaisnt that person so that you don't get to much negativity from it or see its just plain best to have lots of friends in the game. if they declare war on you your friends will automaticly join the war on your side along with all your citystate allies.

so in my opinion dof's are useful perticuarly with the new expansions.

[andonsage]

Originally posted by Martin:

But overall I prefer step one, have a big army. Anyone decides they dont trust you.. kill them. If that's the whole world.. boo hoo to the world... kill em all.

^^^
This :)

I'm currently playing Atilla, and when people started denouncing me, they just determined the order in which I'm going to take them out, LOL!

[DrewReaLee]

I was caught in a kind of awkward spot. My ally, Rome, first shared intrigue that the Incas were plotting aginst me. I sent my spy to one of the Inca cities and found out where they were planning to attack. A few turns later after finding out where they want to attack, I denounce Inca. Rome then gets unhappy with me saying that the Incas are trustworthy or whatever. I'm probably doing something wrong but appeasement just makes the aggressor more aggressive.

[Burbot]

Like others stated DOFs are important. Research agreaments, trade for cash up front instead of GPT, defensive pacts, etc. But they definitly carry risks if you do not play them right. And sometimes you simply can't since the future is unpredictable. So while they are good to have, you don't want too many.

The 'go to to war' requests are especially useful for insight on how the AI feel about each other. Many times they will not declare war without your help, but you know trouble is brewing and it's time to pick sides.

People seem to get frustrated since the AI doesn't have what they consider a sense of loyalty. But to me it reflects reality. The Statue of Liberty story already given was excellent. All that history forgotten because the countries don't see eye to eye on one matter. And my loyalty to the AI is only temporary else well. I'll turn on them as soon as I feel I need to.

The more you play, the better feel you get for the DOFs. I have had several games now where an AI has started to vote for me as World Leader. But I have also had games where I had to fight through an embargo because the entire world hated me for not fault of my own, at least not that I could figure out.

[thedUWUmslayer]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

France built a massive statue for the Americans, which became one of the most enduring symbols of American culture. A few dozen years later, the American leadership changed the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" in their cafeterias. True story. Moral: declarations of friendship are more like declarations of national gullibility. Sometimes they work out, usually in the early to mid game, but by the end game all bets are off, like pandoradog22 said especially if there's been lots of war.

As far as I know, "french fries" aren't actually French, they're Belgian. Belgians speak French, so when Belgian imigrants brought Belgian Frites (basically potatoes cut into thin strips and fried) to America, people called them French Fires because the Belgians spoke French. By now, Fries have become quite American and aren't all that similar to Belgian Frites anymore, so I think its perfectly acceptable to change the name.

[Matthew]

lol... the average American cannot point out and name the majority of European and Middle-Eastern countries. Hell, most would be surprised to find out that there is even a country named Belgium.

[thedUWUmslayer]

Originally posted by matthewameluxen:

lol... the average American cannot point out and name the majority of European and Middle-Eastern countries. Hell, most would be surprised to find out that there is even a country named Belgium.

As an American.......I completely agree with you.