French have riflemen in 25 AD?

[Dark Dev]

I'm playing the computers on King skill because I'm obviously not very good, but normally riflemen start appearing around 1600AD. Why am I seeing the French with one at 25AD? Is this a bug or did the computer find some miracle ancient ruin with one hiding in it?

[Pirate Beard]

They must've been on some extreme luck streak with their scouts and ran into many ancient ruins that upgraded them.

[identity001]

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

They must've been on some extreme luck streak with their scouts and ran into many ancient ruins that upgraded them.

I think they made some changes in the last patch that made this game more difficult because, the very same tactic I used to win my last deity match, doesn't do ♥♥♥♥ even on emperor anymore.

[Damsteri]

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

They must've been on some extreme luck streak with their scouts and ran into many ancient ruins that upgraded them.

Not working anymore, that was fixed in one of the earlies patches.... back in 2010 or 2011. Any unit can get only one upgrade from ruins.


You need to find upgrade ruins with a musketman, to get a rifleman from an upgrade. Unless... The AI civ in question is the Zulus, because their UU Impi upgrades directly to a rifleman, skipping other units. Zulus can get a rifleman early as early medieval, if they get an upgrade from ruins to one of their Impis. Any other civilzation can do the same, if Zulus are not in game and they have got an Impi from a military city state.

I think that Impi is the most logical reason for medieval/reneissance era solitary rifleman unit. Is the Zulus in the game (probably not)? How about military city states, are any of those giving Impis (have you seen any Impis)? You can check military CS UU by opening CS popup and then hovering the word "militaristic".

[Pirate Beard]

Originally posted by Damsteri:

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

They must've been on some extreme luck streak with their scouts and ran into many ancient ruins that upgraded them.

Not working anymore, that was fixed in one of the earlies patches.... back in 2010 or 2011. Any unit can get only one upgrade from ruins.


You need to find upgrade ruins with a musketman, to get a rifleman from an upgrade. Unless... The AI civ in question is the Zulus, because their UU Impi upgrades directly to a rifleman, skipping other units. Zulus can get a rifleman early as early medieval, if they get an upgrade from ruins to one of their Impis. Any other civilzation can do the same, if Zulus are not in game and they have got an Impi from a military city state.

I think that Impi is the most logical reason for medieval/reneissance era solitary rifleman unit. Is the Zulus in the game (probably not)? How about military city states, are any of those giving Impis (have you seen any Impis)? You can check military CS UU by opening CS popup and then hovering the word "militaristic".

True but Idenity said that the French are the ones with the rifleman unit.

[Damsteri]

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

True but Idenity said that the French are the ones with the rifleman unit.

Yes, I noticed that. One of the military city states might give Impis (if you are lucky with random number generator), in case Zulus are not in the game. Each miltary city state has one unique unit from a non-game civilization which it gives to their ally. Is it possible that France is an ally of military city state which give Impis, then they also need those ruins and luck. Quite many ifs, but it's theoretically possible to have a riflemen unit even at beginning of the mediaval era, for any civilization.

[The Rock God]

It also makes a big difference which version of the game you're playing. In Vanilla both Pikes and Crossbows upgrade to Rifleman, making a lucky ruin pretty powerful.

[identity001]

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

Originally posted by Damsteri:

Not working anymore, that was fixed in one of the earlies patches.... back in 2010 or 2011. Any unit can get only one upgrade from ruins.


You need to find upgrade ruins with a musketman, to get a rifleman from an upgrade. Unless... The AI civ in question is the Zulus, because their UU Impi upgrades directly to a rifleman, skipping other units. Zulus can get a rifleman early as early medieval, if they get an upgrade from ruins to one of their Impis. Any other civilzation can do the same, if Zulus are not in game and they have got an Impi from a military city state.

I think that Impi is the most logical reason for medieval/reneissance era solitary rifleman unit. Is the Zulus in the game (probably not)? How about military city states, are any of those giving Impis (have you seen any Impis)? You can check military CS UU by opening CS popup and then hovering the word "militaristic".

True but Idenity said that the French are the ones with the rifleman unit.

Um no, the original poster of the thread said it.

[Pirate Beard]

Originally posted by identity001:

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

True but Idenity said that the French are the ones with the rifleman unit.

Um no, the original poster of the thread said it.

Riiiight, I have no idea how, but I mistook you for OP. Please don't ask because I'm extremely confused right now.

[ajhartman65]

Originally posted by Damsteri:

Originally posted by Outrageous French Taunter:

True but Idenity said that the French are the ones with the rifleman unit.

Yes, I noticed that. One of the military city states might give Impis (if you are lucky with random number generator), in case Zulus are not in the game. Each miltary city state has one unique unit from a non-game civilization which it gives to their ally. Is it possible that France is an ally of military city state which give Impis, then they also need those ruins and luck. Quite many ifs, but it's theoretically possible to have a riflemen unit even at beginning of the mediaval era, for any civilization.

While in theory this is true and should happen, i've hit the advanced weapons from a ruin while playing as the Zulus and have gotten a lancer every time. In my experience you only upgrade an Impi to a rifleman once you have the tech to do so.

[Matthew]

I'm guessing by rifle you actually mean their musketeers? The tech path to muskets is rather short and quite possible for a King AI to get them by 25AD. The rest of their techs usually suck for a long while though since they put off Education and other useful techs.

If you actually meant rifle... I have no idea. Maybe what Rock God said.

[Damsteri]

Originally posted by ajhartman65:

While in theory this is true and should happen, i've hit the advanced weapons from a ruin while playing as the Zulus and have gotten a lancer every time. In my experience you only upgrade an Impi to a rifleman once you have the tech to do so.

Thanks for the info. I rarely play with Zulus and didn't know that. Devs probably though it would be way too OP to allow Zulus to get riflemen that early.

I checked this from game's XML files and what you said is true, Impis upgrade to lancers from ruins. Next line is taken from Impi's definition.
<GoodyHutUpgradeUnitClass>UNITCLASS_LANCER</GoodyHutUpgradeUnitClass>

[mss73055]

Early lucky lancers are amazing raiders and excellent against elephants. The problem with lancers is they're useless where they come in play the regular way.

To upgrade a unit you don't need the tech to build it, but you do need the strategic resource. This is the bottleneck upgrading to landships: If you got cavalry you probably don't have oil. On the other hand if you got landships they upgrade into tanks without problem.

[SIRTHICCNESS69420]

i have seen this before. Mech infantory at 1400 A.D. probably either a glitch or units kept going through ancient ruins.

[donald23]

Originally posted by alanwestrip:

i have seen this before. Mech infantory at 1400 A.D. probably either a glitch or units kept going through ancient ruins.

If so, that someone is either playing with mods or the release version of vanilla...