Wonders worth poo

[Rook's Noob]

Is there a wonder you find you never build? For me its teracotta army. I think I built it once and had to delete everything because my finances went teribad.

[JAGGzilla]

Yep, terracotta is one and parthenon is the other. Even if I'm playing for a cultural win the cost/time doesn't justify the benefit. Sometimes i get suckered into building one or the other for a city state influence, though.

[St3amfails]

terracotta can, in some instances, (spawning next to multiple early warlike civs or playing as one) be extremely useful. Most games/situations I agree its pretty meh though.
Parthenon is pretty worthless unless playing toward a very specific goal.
Angor wat is useless to me.
Chichen itza is only useful for specialized civs, and even that is pretty questionable
Brandenburg gate is meaningless to me since its bonuses are almost always meaningless by the point in the game it is buildable

[Damsteri]

Parthenon and Terracotta army, I agree with that.

Parthenon is not worth it, unless your target is culture victory with only couple of cities. You can get that 4 culture very easily when playing with a wide strategy and one Great Work of Art is not much, especially when same technology allows you to build Writers Guild.

Terracotta Army requires good variety of units and good income. I got once 11 units from Terracotta Army when I was playing with Greece and I was able to conquer my continent without any problems using two larger armies simultaneously, but it's useless way too often. I heard that units from Terracotta Army were maintenance free originally in beta phase, but they dropped the idea because it was OP.

[Rook's Noob]

I do not like the Parthenon either . It does one thing though. It seems to always give a themeable work of art, A piece that can be matched with other art to create the bonus theming,
Speaking of theming who designed this part of the game . If they had one art icon for art and another art icon for artifacts it would be so much easier to figure it all out,

[Eamos]

I've never found any of the ancient wonders that useful-- except maybe Stonehedge if I'm a faith based civilization. I just find that they hinder my growth and expansion far more than they help me throughout the game. However, the wonder that I've never built is the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. It might be useful in very specific situations, but I've never been in one of those situations.

[americanman_4_life]

If they Upped the bonus for the Terracotta, it wouldn't be soo bad!
I remember playing a much earlier Civ, III, I think, there was a Wonder that if built instantly upgraded all your military units! They should make the Terracotta do that!

Any military unit not upgraded by your tech tree allowing you to upgrade, you just can't afford to spend it on all your units upgrades at the same time, you build the Terracotta! When its finished, all your millitary units that have a researched upgrade, but waiting for you to spend the money on em, would instantly get upgraded! Of course this would suck for some, trying to manage getting certain techs done in time, not spending money on upgrades if they just going to get done free only to get close and see someone else finished it before you... could be minor setbacks!

I agree though, the Terracotta how its written, one free copy of all your units currently have... thats dumb! Around the time you are going to finish the Terracotta, what units could you Possibly have? Pike, Horsemen (or Knight), Xbow maybe, Longsword, and maybe the Treb... and possibly 2 ships; Trireme and Galleass? So up to 7 units free when it's built, IF you already have those units on your game. Spite that, some culture....

Terracotta not worth my time.

[americanman_4_life]

Another... is the Great Wall wonder... I love it early on, but IT JUST PISSES ME off that its obsolete in the later ages... depending what era I'm in when I finish it, it seems I might get one whole era in with its benefit, only to sit around and look UGLY the rest of game! If I have the Great Wall, I often find my self holding out my research from the Dynamite only to take advantage of TGW, so I can't get Artillary as soon as others!

I guess it depends if i'm choosing to start off defensively or not... or how close my empire is spread apart!

[americanman_4_life]

Originally posted by -SoA- Pizzaman:

I've never found any of the ancient wonders that useful-- except maybe Stonehedge if I'm a faith based civilization. I just find that they hinder my growth and expansion far more than they help me throughout the game. However, the wonder that I've never built is the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. It might be useful in very specific situations, but I've never been in one of those situations.

The GMoH would go well with Leaning Tower of Pisa and the statue of Liberty would go great together. Also the Ntnl Epic as well, that should be a given though. Put all these together, and you have more reasons to build Specialists... this gives reason for the Liberty to be built, and the GMoH as well, both benefiting from the construction of the Pisa!

[Kujo Irene]

stone henge is pretty bad if is weren't for the engineer boost

[cookies?]

stonehenge is basically make sure that you have a useful faith pick. I hardly build great wall since I tech up to dynamite too quick, but I alwyas hate it when a close A.I have it. Basically mean you can't attack their cities until much later on.

The one I never buidl is the statue of zeus.
-A. Sometimes I don't take honor
-B. I never go take cities in early war( only cripple or harass my enemy)

[Stanley Q, Esquire]

this question is so broad it's difficult to answer. all wonders are good, and i'd build each one if i could (which is to say if i played on settler).

playing on king or higher, i tend to boot straight to guilds and that usually means i miss many of the good wonders available early.

terra cotta army is easy to play wrong. if you're not at war, and have no intention of going to war, it has no purpose and burdens you with a cash flow defecit.

[Matthew]

Parthenon isn't that bad. It's main flaw is AI's going for culture victory bee-line it, so not practical to get in some situations.

But the wonder itself is decent. You cannot look at it as just 4 culture and 2 tourism. You have to consider both time and opportunity cost. On the one side, the faster tourism slows down the culture lead other Civs get in the early game (and +2 tourism IS a lot that early, double the amount you normally have). Combine with cathedrals and/or Sistine for the faster artist slots (otherwise you need to wait until museums) along with Sacred Sites, and your tourims per turn will catch up to opponent culture per turn extremly quick.

The other side is opportunity cost. If you let a Civ stack a ton of culture/tourism wonders, ally culture city-states, opposing ideologies, then it is near impossible to overtake them with tourism short of either wiping them completely off the map or getting to internet and dropping 3-4+ music tours. It is kind of like how some players will get Great Wall in domination games. It isn't for the player, but so your competition cannot build it.

[Matthew]

My short list would be something like this:

Terracotta Army - It isn't practical to both build a ton of military units AND the wonder to get the full effect. If you just build the wonder, you will only get one or two military units. May as well just hard-build the military units instead.

Ankor Wat - If you wanted the cheaper tiles, you'd have gone Tradition anyway.

Pentagon - You won't be upgrading units much after you build it. Plus, if you are going down this part of the tech tree you are likely going for a domination win, and your billion trading post puppets and 800 gpt make upgrade costs a non-issue.

CN Tower - Comes so late. In smaller empires you already have the radio towers built. In large puppet empires it is okay, but doesn't really have an effect on the game itself.

Himeji/Red Fort - Outside of building them so your competition cannot, much like Great Wall, I've never bothered to build these unless I had nothing better to build. You won't beat other Civs to it unless you bee-line the techs. You won't be bee-lining the techs unless you are attempting to take advantage of the lower military techs. Which means going on the offense, where both wonders are useless. They are defensive wonders on an offensive tech path.

Taj Mahal - +4 happiness and starts a golden age. Would be okay if it came, say, 100 turns earlier and lengthened golden ages by 50%. Chichen Itza is better in every way. I'll build it, but only if I'm not busy building factories, schools, porcelain tower, or world's fair... so... typically never.

[m.d.nealy]

Terracotta Army should provide units with two promotions of your choice. I still wouldn't build it often but it would make it wort while in some circumstances. It is the worse wonder imo. Even if its availiable and an AI has declared war on me i find it more useful to build the units I need. I hate paying extra gold for just another warrior and archer needing promoted even if i get another comp bowman and pikeman.

[ErikDragonbane]

Originally posted by Leader Gorilla:

stone henge is pretty bad if is weren't for the engineer boost

I find Stonehenge especially helpful in Deity games to guarantee you get the Goddess of Protection pantheon. Saved me many times