What do privateers do now?

[Tyrion]

Ok so it used to be that privateers were basically something I loved as an annoyance tool, by randomly attacking others units, but now I just tried to attack a Byzantine missionary going over sea and it told me that I'd go to war? So what are they used for now?

[zxcvbob]

It's just a warship. About like a caravel but a little stronger -- and if it defeats an enemy ship there's a chance that ship will join your fleet.

[Eamos]

Now privateers have a chance of capturing the ship it just defeated. It can help you gain a large navy, but only works if you are at war.

[5n4k3d0cToR]

Its been nerfed in this release mate. Guess it was too OP for some on the community forums...

[ForevaNoob Wonemorturn]

You're very right, privateers should be and behave as... privateers.
And have nothing to do with war.
Pity...

[mmmcheesywaffles]

Originally posted by jml:

You're very right, privateers should be and behave as... privateers.
And have nothing to do with war.
Pity...

Agreed - up to a point. The whole concept of the Privateer raiding shipping lanes should reflect that Piracy still occurs today. State sponsored piracy may be a thing of the past ... but is it? We may not see Letters of Marque but some regions have a lot more piracy than others.

The players should be able to choose if Piracy and Privateering is allowed without requiring a declaration of war.

[greg_chow_13]

Originally posted by jml:

You're very right, privateers should be and behave as... privateers.
And have nothing to do with war.
Pity...

A privateer or "corsair" was a private person or ship authorized by a government by letters of marque to attack foreign vessels during wartime.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

Originally posted by greg_chow_13:

Originally posted by jml:

You're very right, privateers should be and behave as... privateers.
And have nothing to do with war.
Pity...

A privateer or "corsair" was a private person or ship authorized by a government by letters of marque to attack foreign vessels during wartime.

Actually the terms of reference were often cloudier than that. The Privateer was often away from home long enough to not even know if they were still at war.

[greg_chow_13]

I was commenting on how jml said they have nothing to do with war. When it reality they do. If anything they should be completely AI controlled with no gpt cost. They stay docked in your harbor until you send them out, Once sent out they raid for trade routes( giving 50% the usual gold) and attack enemy ship's that you were at war with at the time you sent them out.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

In practice the Privateers were usually just pirates with 'permission' to attack anyone but the ships of their Letter of Marque. Though some apparently still did so - when th e takings were good enough and nothing could be proven. Strictly speaking they would have to post a bond and agree to certain rules on where & when they would operate. However, the profits to be made were huge and those bonds were no real deterrant to the sort of scheming that reveals what most the Privateers were - Pirates.

Local Governors of colonies would sometimes have undocumented agreements with some of these rogues. The Privateer would go scout the trade routes leading to another colony and 'releive' those traders of much needed goods wanted by the Governer with whom they have their agreement. In return the Privateer would load up with colonial goods desparately sought after by the people back home.

Some colonies depended upon this dubious trade to help them get established. They genuinely might not have been able to afford the high charges for supplies from home. Tipping off a Privateer and then paying him for the goods at a lower price was one scenario. Another was tipping off the Privateer of a shipment due in another port... then buyiong the goods from the Privateer.

Important shipping was escorted by military ships and it had very little to do with war. It was simple economics and control. The Privateers provided each State the ability to attack other States WITHOUT declaring war on each other. The modern term is 'plausible deniability' you'll find it hidden in the small print of many trade relations even in our global ecomomy.

The Privateers would occasionally destroy or capture military ships that were a problme to them conducting their 'normal' business. That they alluded to rules of war was only a conveniance. It allowed the Privateer to return home to the country of thier origin and NOT get hung as Pirates. In practice those return shipments would contain goods for the local Aristocracy and the Privateer would make money from all angles.

Sometimes WiKi just ain't got teh info :)

[greg_chow_13]

Even if they are not Declaring war it still has 100% to do with war. And as I said they should be controlled by the AI and when deployed let you select what civ they plunder.

privateer, privately owned armed vessel commissioned by a belligerent state to attack ENEMY ships, usually vessels of commerce. Privateering was carried on by all nations from the earliest times until the 19th century. Crews were not paid by the commissioning government but were entitled to cruise for their own profit, with crew members receiving portions of the value of any cargo or shipping that they could wrest from the original owners.

Frequently, it was impossible to restrain the activities of privateers within the legitimate bounds laid down in their commissions. Thus, it often became difficult to distinguish between privateers, pirates, corsairs, or buccaneers, many of whom sailed without genuine commissions.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

Originally posted by greg_chow_13:

Even if they are not Declaring war it still has 100% to do with war. And as I said they should be controlled by the AI and when deployed let you select what civ they plunder. ...

Firstly - we disagree. You are accepting a generalised term as fact. Just because a Pivateer SHOULD fit a certain description it does not mean that their sponsors either wanted them to behave that way or enforced that behavour. History shows the lines were far more blurred.

Secondly- to truly represrent the Privateer in-game I feel that AI control would inhibit the response to the same terms of reference you seem to think are appropriate. For accurate historical perspective each ship should have a definition defined by the player and yes - I agree an AI could do that, but it might be easier to allow the player to retain control and use the ship in a normal Pirate manner. Letting the Privateer raid freind or foe when you the player decide you want to.

Whilst in some cases the sponsor of a given Privateer might genuinley want to control their actions - most simply wanted profit. They also wanted to have control over the shipping lanes and therefore control over the markets. It was money not war.

During the era of the Privateer many nations were actually at peace - officially.

My source for this is taken from many articles and books that mention the history of the individuals concerned. Some might even be family :) Certainly as a young lad I often read the tales of many Pirates; Privateers and heroes. When you read so much you start to see the wider picture. As I grew older I learned of various 'deals' made by some Privateers. It is those deals that reveal the true nature of the politics. I have family that emigrated to the New World - some were good - some were dubious. One particular bad guy even looked a bit like I do.. albeit with longer beard :)

To truly reflect a Privateer in - game we should therefore be able to despatch them with the following switches...

For each race in the game we could flag them as possible targets
We should be able to define a catchment area [so many hexes from a start point]

By way of an example in my current game I am allied with 5 races and have 3 'enemies' - I am not at war with anyone. I want a Diplomatic win playing Venice.

I want to hit one particular enemies economy and if I could send a Privateer to raid his shipping lanes I would do so. Now being an honourable guy I don't want to raid my 'freinds' ships or my own. I only want to raid one 'enemy' who won't make peace with me without backstabbing. I also only want to raid some of his shipping as he is supplying one of my 'freinds' with goods that are helping him expand too. So I need ot define the are of operation.

I may have to resort to declaring war in order to cut his most lucrativce trade routes... but I am trying hard to stick to diplomacy.

In historical terms I want to gain control of the seas and limit his economy without actually going to war. That was what the Privateers were all about. War with one nation was often used as a cover to sponsor these pirates. The money backing them usually came from entrepenours with vested interest in cornering particualr markets.


EDIT: typos and some additional remarks