Finally beat the Mongol scenario

[mrmike_49]

After a half dozen started games that I quit on, I made it thru on Settler. Tough scenario, I REALLY don't see how you could do it on Diety. It took me 20 turns to kill Jin, it was turn 50 by the time I got Wu, and I thought I was never gonna make it. But the strong troops and great production on the home front let me steam roller India, then go at Persia with a LARGE army. Problem there was the capital was protected/invisible on the north side, so lost a few turns there. Finished them (winning the scenario) at turn 16 - would likely have had time to take out Arabia by turn 0.

I could have been sending all the new armies to attack Korea while going for Peria and Arabia, that would have given me 6, but Russia is really spread out, in plains, but still spread out, and Japan you need to have researched sailing - so I can't see getting more than 6.

The scenario requires some really anal attention to detail in troop movement and placement, and selecting the right promotions for the ranged units 1) Double Attack 2) 25% against cities 3) Indirect Fire 4) Heal every turn 5) Range +1 (which ONLY works on plains/grasslands)
Required lots of save/reloads to keep experienced troop alive.

ALWAYS keep at least 3 Horseman around to actually capture the cities, until you get Long Swordsman who are better since they can actually take a beating from a beat down city and still capture it the next turn

[TheGaleRider]

The trick is to use the Keshik hit-and-run attacks. You gotta be really careful with those Keshiks because they only have 15 Base Strength. If all goes well, your Keshiks shouldn't take little (if any) damage. I always tell myself "Meatshields are NOT an option".

Another promotion you should have is Indirect Fire, which allows the +1 Range to be even more effective because now you can shoot over rough terrain. I wouldn't prioritize March (heal every turn) until much later because your Keshiks shouldn't be getting hurt.

You shouldn't be using land units like Longswordsmen unless you plan on taking on Japan. There's a reason why the Mongols historically relied on their cavalry. The Mongols were nomadic herders and expert horsemen. They could cover so much ground on their horses (in contrast, a foot army was much slower and could only go so far). Instead, I would try and go for Metallurgy (which I did in a King difficulty playthrough) so you can use Lancers. Much better than Horsemen and still has lots of mobility.

At the beginning of the scenario, if you look at the Demographics, you'll notice that you are very far behind everyone. You have to start war immediately, because if you wait to start building up infrastructure and a sizable force, China will be a VERY tough nut to crack. And then you have to conquer everyone else still.

A very tough scenario indeed.

Here's a Deity playthrough (commentary in subtitles):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSgf7y26Fqw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuUmxHpNqCM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCqDOtB8DNo

[mrmike_49]

Yeah, keeping the Keshiks healthy was the biggest single problem - needed VERY careful movement control, and several reloads! Indirect Fire I called "shooting over obstacles - #3 priority.

Reason for Long Swordsman is the tendency to use all horses for Keshiks, leaving no one to actually capture the city. I managed to get a few far enough forward to capture several Persian and Arabian cities for me. Most of the rest of them, and Muskets & Cannons, should have gone after Korea back near home base

Started war 1st turn! Met the C-S just south and DOW!

Question: are the cities in the same fixed locations? Does Wu always have that many cities (7 I think)? How tough & how many cities does Korea have?

[TheGaleRider]

Originally posted by mrmike_49:

Yeah, keeping the Keshiks healthy was the biggest single problem - needed VERY careful movement control, and several reloads!.

Yeah, one wrong move and you've lost a highly promoted Keshik. I've had to reload plenty of autosaves during Rise of the Mongols playthroughs.

Originally posted by mrmike_49:

Indirect Fire I called "shooting over obstacles - #3 priority.

Whoops. Sorry, didn't see that.

Originally posted by mrmike_49:

Reason for Long Swordsman is the tendency to use all horses for Keshiks, leaving no one to actually capture the city. I managed to get a few far enough forward to capture several Persian and Arabian cities for me. Most of the rest of them, and Muskets & Cannons, should have gone after Korea back near home base

I keep 2 Horsemen in the very beginning for city taking purposes. It's the only fast city taker until Lancers. Unfortunately you have to get the city health very low to guarantee a city capture, and then your Horsemen are very low on health. Unfortunately mounted units are the only way to conquer all of the Eurasian Civs within the time limit (Japan requires Cannons and Riflemen). Your armies gotta keep on moving. Given this, I would prioritize March for Horsemen.

Originally posted by mrmike_49:

Started war 1st turn! Met the C-S just south and DOW!

I start mine around the second turn. I upgrade a few of my Horsemen that first turn and get some policies in Honor going.

Originally posted by mrmike_49:

Question: are the cities in the same fixed locations? Does Wu always have that many cities (7 I think)? How tough & how many cities does Korea have?

Yes, cities are fixed. Wu starts with 5 cities but will declare on the Jin to reconquer lost territories (like real history). Taking out the Chinese is probably your first priority.
Korea is a city-state, so there's only one city. The scenario was made before Korea was made into an actual Civ. Shouldn't be too hard, but will be necessary if you plan on taking on Japan.

[mrmike_49]

I may have to give King a try, but I suspect it will be a BIG challenge

[JesseL]

I tried playing on diety and I conquered all the civs except Russia and Arabia but then I ran out of time. It's a challenge.

[mrmike_49]

Originally posted by Faramir:

I tried playing on diety and I conquered all the civs except Russia and Arabia but then I ran out of time. It's a challenge.

I figured Russia would be a big challenge, but I thought Arabia was fairly easy except for last city (Cairo?) . I never did research ANY sailing tech, so Japan would be "pretty tough"

[Nimbus]

I attempted this on Emperor, and it is extremely tough to make progress in such a short time period. As it was mentioned above, keeping a group of Keshik veterans alive is key! What I would normally do is surround a city with them, but keep them far enough away that the city can't reach them. At the start of the turn, move them in to attack, then move them back to safety afterwards.

With the double attack upgrade and some Great Generals nearby, most cities go down pretty quickly. But you have to plan your route very carefully since you don't have many turns to spare.

[Damsteri]

I made named save files from my successful Deity run, here is my progress how it went (taken from my save file names):

First, I attacked China and Jin with neighboring CSs with all my forces

• Turn 05 - CS Uighur Conquered
  
• Turn 08 - War with China
  
• Turn 15 - Peace with China (after Chengdu was captured)
  
• Turn 17 - War with Jin
  
• Turn 22 - CS Western Xia Conquered
  
• Turn 23 - Original army divided to Eastern and Western armies

Then, I had enough Keshiks to make two armies (first three, then four per army), so first half of my original army continued to west, while second half was left to finish off China and Jin. I divided my experienced Keshiks between both armies.

Eastern Army (3-4 Keshiks, a Horseman and a Khan)

• Turn 31 - Peace with Jin
  
• Turn 33 - Second war with China
  
• Turn 44 - China Conquered
  
• Turn 46 - Second War with Jin
  
• Turn 49 - Jin Conquered
  
• Turn 55 - War with India (used western route, cleared by Western Army)
  
• Turn 69 - India Conquered

Western Army (3-4 Keshiks, a Horseman and a Khan)

• Turn 29 - War with Persia
  
• Turn 56 - Persia Conquered
  
• Turn 59 - War with Arabia
  
• Trun 70 - Arabia Conquered

Eastern Army had conquered China, Jin and India, while Western Army had conquered Persia and Arabia. Only 30 turns left and still 3 civilizations to conquer. It was time to make another army split, when both armies where close enough each others.

I handpicked my four most elite Keshiks (logistics, range, indirect fire, march, siege, etc.) and sent them to form a new Eastern Army with destination Japan. I boosted the Eastern Army with a tritreme, a rifleman and a cannon in the end. Those were really important, especially once my horseman died and that rifleman was my only melee unit in the Japanese archipelago (and eventually captured the last city). Four less experienced Keshiks formed a new Western Army.

New Western Army (4 Keshiks, a Horseman and a Khan)

• Turn 74 - War with Byzantium
  
• Turn 79 - Byzantium Conquered
  
• Turn 82 - War with Russia (went trough Byzantium to west and then moved north)
  
• Turn 93 - Russia Conquered / Army disbanded

New Eastern Army (4 Keshiks, a Horseman and a Khan, later also a Tritreme, a Rifleman and a Cannon)

• Turn 77 - War with Japan
  
• Turn 98 - Japan Conquered / Game won

Notes:

• My whole navy was one Tritreme which was used for securing safe embarkment for my units near Japanese archipelago
  
• 10 horseunits were all what was needed... or almost. You don't need to train a large army
  
• I conquered only two city states, Uighur and Western Xia
  
• I didn't develop Karakorum much, it has population of 4 at the end
  
• I had some happiness problems, my happiness was -60 at the end
  
• Keshiks were still amazing even with -33% combat penalty due unhappiness
  
• I razed almost every city, saved only a few which gave new resources (plus capitals)
  
• I reached Reneissance Era on turn 69 (Gunpowder)
  
• I didn't plan to make two wars against both China and Jin, but peace deals were bountiful and it allowed me to plan my attack in different way
  
• I played one game earlier, revealing the whole map and achieving the "Khaaan! - Run out of time and lose" achievement. I used that knowledge about the map to plan my attacks on my Deity run. In Deity you can't lose even a single turn for looking a route, and you can't afford any units to do scouting simultaneously
  
• Sentry promotion for Horsemen is helpful, it allows you to use them as spotters for 3-range Keshiks and they can see hostile units from far, keeping your Keshiks away from danger
  
• A Single Horseman (per army) is the risk factor in this system, you need to keep it away from danger. It's only job is to conquer cities once they are shot down to 1hp by Keshiks. (I lost one or two and had to rush-buy replacements)