Civ 5 Meta Strategies

[HatlessHorseMan]

To all the Civ vets out there, what are your usual strategies when playing civ? Do you rush science? Do you spam cavalry? Do you bribe other civs into supporting your wars? Whatever you do, post it!

On a side note, what is your guys' opinion on the Great Library? Is it worth the production points or a total waste of production?

[Qutsemnie]

The first meta-meta strategy is whether you play to eventually beat immortal and deity on standard settings or you play to win the map and difficultly you are on.

For example, you can't get Great Library on deity. Most people can't get it on Immortal except for winning the lottery on map, so no matter how good you think it is you can only go so far with it before the act of going for it is the thing that is holding you back.

I have occasionally seen other early wonders got on Deity, but if you look at the start they took to post their game on youtube you realize that on average you would probably need to reload 10 times to get that start.

Though, I will note this:
On immortal you don't need to get lucky to win. You need to avoid getting unlucky and then make use of what you have. It is possible to have a bad start and not be able to recover, but barring just flatout sad dice rolls from the map gods you can win.
I think on Deity (which I haven't won) something about your start needs to be lucky, and the trick is finding it and exploiting it, so you need to be a skilled and flexible enough player that you can spot it and make it work. The trick is that very few of us are flexible enough to really play a broad range of starts well, so unless we get really lucky we need a miracle on deity to win. That is to say the average good civ player is still narrow enough in their play style that they need both a fortuitous start and a fortuitous start that fits into their own personal wheel house. While the very best of us just need a fortuitous start.

Either way I think someone calculated how lucky you would have to be beat the AI to great library on deity and it is nutty. You don't get that lucky.

[Danny]

Cant forget to add that the AI dont get lucky starts and placements of them. Rescources are fine and lucky start is great and all but if you are surrounded by 2 or 3 warmongerers you are going to need to go hard military early on or you WILL die.

Also RANGED UNITS, RANGE RANGE RANGE!!!! Its ridiculous how strong they are early game, didnt believe it at first when I read the post on Civfanatics and the immediate game after the Huns had about 8 horse archers and around 4 battering rams and a bunch of swordsman. That was on emperor, got rekt because they snowballed out of control and all the civs couldnt do anything (or were willing) to do anything about it.

So I would say before we could even talk about metas in civ we need to split between multiplayer and singleplayer. In single player depends on difficulty because as stated above he pointed out how on anything above king you will start to need luck, couldnt even get the mausoleum on emperor!

But anyway if its multiplayer it then depends how vital every step is on your build order for the start like people leaving immediately when someone builds the GL is pretty funny on MP.

But yeah now I always try to get archers on a ratio of archers to swordsman around 3:1. Learned my lesson vs the huns. If I KNOW I am safe then I settle down a bit and try to see if it will be naval warfare to take the map or some island hopping etc etc. Usually if you are going domination you can usually snatch either culture or diplo victory on the side if you get lazy along the way, science maybe (game usually ends earlier by the other victories).

Still figuring out tradition or liberty, been having more luck with tradition lately tho.

[zxcvbob]

BNW. I'm still trying different things, mostly at the Prince and King difficulty level at this point. I look at the achievements list, and tailor a game around unlocking as many achievements as I can in one game -- what civ, what map type, what difficulty, etc. Or UU's I still need for Modern Major General, or wonders for Wonder Years (I just finished that one) Then I play out the whole game and see where it takes me.

I have figured out that allying the CS's is a key piece of any victory type (even the spaceship). More on that later. And faith is useful, whether you found a religion or not. I kind of rush one tech or another (usually getting first to Navigation or Chemistry, and I love being the first civ with Dynamite) Also starting midgame, I run one tech thread (any of them) as far as i can to push me into the next era to get the next spy. I generally use my best spy in my own capital, and the rest as diplomats or to rig elections.

When I first started playing, I disabled espionage and ignored the CS's and religion, and hated the world congress. Those can be the best part once I learned how to manipulate them! :-)

I need to play some more games using Liberty. Mostly I go full-tilt Tradition, but also opening Honor and Patronage, eventually filling Tradition and Patronage, and at least opening most of the other policy branches except Piety. The one game where I played Piety turned out awesome, but I think that was more from the Patronage that I was also just starting to experiment with.

I like the Great Library, but it uses a lot of production; might be better spent on the cheaper regular library that you are guaranteed to get and move on to a different wonder that the AI's don't rush. Even though I seldom open Piety, I often rush Stonehenge. Using faith to buy cultural and religious buildings (classical and Renaissance) and Great People (late game) is huge.

If you ally a militaristic CS or two and keep them happy, you will hardly need to build anything except naval and air units after your initial little army of archers, scouts, and spearmen (which you continually upgrade, of course.) They will spam you with so many ground units you will eventually have trouble maintaining them all and you'll have the most pointy sticks in the world.

Giant Death Robots are cool.

[Crim]

Great Library is a pricey and obvious gamble that can leave you reliant if you get used to building it regularly on low difficulty AI

[HatlessHorseMan]

I alway cut down a forest or two while building the GL. I consider it worth the production points, esecially when you factor in the great scientist points. However, I can see certain situations where it is absolutely foolish to do so (no forests or hills nearby, for instance).

[Bandit17]

As others have said difficulty level and SP or MP will dictate a lot fo how one plays. So all I can do is give you advice on how I play on Emperor vs the AI.

-Don't be afraid to move your initial settler if your initial area is crap. My rule of thumb is never spend more then two turns doing this if I can help it or you'll fall too far behind for one of the early wonders.

-I always open up Tradition (quicker border expansion and initial boost to culture is too good to pass up. Plus I usually pick up Aristocracy for the happiness and wonder production once I finish the Liberty Tree which I go to next. After that is Commerce, Rationalism and than Order Ideology for happiness.

-Keep an open mind as every game will be slightly different so don't be afraid to scrap your plans for a different strategy. If I realize I will be fighting barbarians most of the game I go into Honor instead of Commerce and also pick up Obligarchy in Tradition. If I have almost all coastal cities I go into Exploration instead of Commerce.

-Religion. On Emperor it can be hard getting the Great Library so I almost always skip that and build the Stonehenge and then shoot for the Pyramids. This will net you religion, Great Engineer points and awesome workers for expansion.

-Steal a worker or two from your neighbors as soon as you can. This way you don't need to build your own or get the one in the Liberty tree until later.

-Early Composite Bowmen rush. Build 4-5 archers timed with Construction and with a full treasury built from trading with other civs you upgrade and with at least one melee unit invade a close neighbor. One with nice resources or a religious threat.

-After 2-3 cities build your National College and shoot for the Oracle. Try not to finish it before you get your initial Engineer (from the Stonehenge and Pyramids). The finished Oracle can let you finish the Liberty tree early. This will net you two early Engineers to use as you choose. Machu Pichu is nice especially for expansive empires.

That's a rough draft anyways of my general strategy. Expansion via city spam and warmongering is how I take over half of a large map. A happiness focused religion, CS's, aggressive play and the right policies will make it possible. Trading posts and ranged units are your friends.

The above strategy is best for Domination, Science and Diplomatic victories.

[Danny]

Originally posted by Bandit17:

As others have said difficulty level and SP or MP will dictate a lot fo how one plays. So all I can do is give you advice on how I play on Emperor vs the AI.

-Don't be afraid to move your initial settler if your initial area is crap. My rule of thumb is never spend more then two turns doing this if I can help it or you'll fall too far behind for one of the early wonders.

-I always open up Tradition (quicker border expansion and initial boost to culture is too good to pass up. Plus I usually pick up Aristocracy for the happiness and wonder production once I finish the Liberty Tree which I go to next. After that is Commerce, Rationalism and than Order Ideology for happiness.

-Keep an open mind as every game will be slightly different so don't be afraid to scrap your plans for a different strategy. If I realize I will be fighting barbarians most of the game I go into Honor instead of Commerce and also pick up Obligarchy in Tradition. If I have almost all coastal cities I go into Exploration instead of Commerce.

-Religion. On Emperor it can be hard getting the Great Library so I almost always skip that and build the Stonehenge and then shoot for the Pyramids. This will net you religion, Great Engineer points and awesome workers for expansion.

-Steal a worker or two from your neighbors as soon as you can. This way you don't need to build your own or get the one in the Liberty tree until later.

-Early Composite Bowmen rush. Build 4-5 archers timed with Construction and with a full treasury built from trading with other civs you upgrade and with at least one melee unit invade a close neighbor. One with nice resources or a religious threat.

-After 2-3 cities build your National College and shoot for the Oracle. Try not to finish it before you get your initial Engineer (from the Stonehenge and Pyramids). The finished Oracle can let you finish the Liberty tree early. This will net you two early Engineers to use as you choose. Machu Pichu is nice especially for expansive empires.

That's a rough draft anyways of my general strategy. Expansion via city spam and warmongering is how I take over half of a large map. A happiness focused religion, CS's, aggressive play and the right policies will make it possible. Trading posts and ranged units are your friends.

The above strategy is best for Domination, Science and Diplomatic victories.

Can you explain this part a bit more, I reread it but it sounds a bit awkward "-After 2-3 cities build your National College and shoot for the Oracle. Try not to finish it before you get your initial Engineer (from the Stonehenge and Pyramids). The finished Oracle can let you finish the Liberty tree early. This will net you two early Engineers to use as you choose. Machu Pichu is nice especially for expansive empires."

Like after 2-3 cities INCLUDING your capital or like having a total of 3 or 4 cities. Whats wrong is finishing the oracle before your initial engineer?

[Orlock]

Someone said: The first casualty of a game is the plan (or something like that...)
There are, of course, the basics. Work your luxuries, build the National college soon, and so on. But we are talking about Meta Strategy.
So here is my strategy for a standard prince level game.
The first things in the game for me are the first settler and then stonehenge. I love the early game advantages that come from religion, and I want to choose first.
My capital will pump out wonders throughout the game whenever possible.
The second city will produce settlers untill I have four or five cities. From that on I will build up a core empire.
Policies depend on map size. Tradition for maps up to standard size. Liberty for larger maps.
Great persons I use for their special tile improvements. That will give a lasting bonus. I only spend great engineers for wonders I really need.
I develop my core empire at least to education and gunpowder. If I find some space for some more cities, I will produce some settlers from time to time.
At that point I schould lead at science. Now I make plans of how to win the game. Mostly I start some warmongering. I conquer cities as my happiness allows. Notre Dame helps here.
Everything else depends on situation and my plan of winning the current game.

[gnorf73]

Originally posted by Orlock:

Someone said: The first casualty of a game is the plan (or something like that...)
There are, of course, the basics. Work your luxuries, build the National college soon, and so on. But we are talking about Meta Strategy.
So here is my strategy for a standard prince level game.
The first things in the game for me are the first settler and then stonehenge. I love the early game advantages that come from religion, and I want to choose first.
My capital will pump out wonders throughout the game whenever possible.
The second city will produce settlers untill I have four or five cities. From that on I will build up a core empire.
Policies depend on map size. Tradition for maps up to standard size. Liberty for larger maps.
Great persons I use for their special tile improvements. That will give a lasting bonus. I only spend great engineers for wonders I really need.
I develop my core empire at least to education and gunpowder. If I find some space for some more cities, I will produce some settlers from time to time.
At that point I schould lead at science. Now I make plans of how to win the game. Mostly I start some warmongering. I conquer cities as my happiness allows. Notre Dame helps here.
Everything else depends on situation and my plan of winning the current game.

I've played 2 games of this so far.. If you don't count the 10 times i started over when i realized i majorly screwed up. I just purchased one of the expansions yesterday so maybe things are different for you guys playing with all of them. But my question is how do you just casually conquer cities for their resources? Each time i have tried that the whole world turns on me. Are things different with all the expansions, or am i just not doing it properly?

[zxcvbob]

...how do you just casually conquer cities for their resources? Each time i have tried that the whole world turns on me. Are things different with all the expansions, or am i just not doing it properly?

Did you take a city from another civ, or a city-state? Most of the civs hate it when you take CS's -- unless you're Genghis Kahn, it's kind of expected of him. They mostly forgive taking one city (not the capital) from a civ and then negotiating peace (except Gandhi)

[Danny]

Originally posted by zxcvbob:

...how do you just casually conquer cities for their resources? Each time i have tried that the whole world turns on me. Are things different with all the expansions, or am i just not doing it properly?

Did you take a city from another civ, or a city-state? Most of the civs hate it when you take CS's -- unless you're Genghis Kahn, it's kind of expected of him. They mostly forgive taking one city (not the capital) from a civ and then negotiating peace (except Gandhi)

In the BNW expansion they changed taking cities a bit on how the world views you. If the person you are taking from is a major conquerer then taking his cities give a small "warmonger penalty" like minor, on the opposite end if you go attack one of the weaker civs with like 3 cities and low score you could get an EXTREME warmonger penalty. If you liberate cities from a major conqurer you get extreme liberator bonuses, if you liberate cities from minor conqurers you get minor liberator bonuses.

Still though with this system is can get a bit screwy at times

[Bandit17]

Originally posted by Danny:

Can you explain this part a bit more, I reread it but it sounds a bit awkward "-After 2-3 cities build your National College and shoot for the Oracle. Try not to finish it before you get your initial Engineer (from the Stonehenge and Pyramids). The finished Oracle can let you finish the Liberty tree early. This will net you two early Engineers to use as you choose. Machu Pichu is nice especially for expansive empires."

Like after 2-3 cities INCLUDING your capital or like having a total of 3 or 4 cities. Whats wrong is finishing the oracle before your initial engineer?

If you can get both Stonehenge and the Pyramids in your capital it will well be on it's way towards a Great Engineer. This engineer will automatically spawn at about the time someone on the map finishes the Oracle. Finishing the Oracle grants you a free policy and typically at this point you should only need one more Liberty Tree policy to finish it and get a free Great Person of your choice. If you grab a Great Engineer from the Liberty Tree before your capital finishes it's own Great Engineer the Engineer points will be pushed back meaning it will take longer to get that Engineer.

If you want to boom early having two Great Engineers is a terrific way of doing it so you can grab some hard to get World Wonders. Now, like someone above said, planning can usually be tossed out the window but in about half my games I can pull this off since the Stonehenge and the Oracle can be tricky to get on Emperor sometimes.

Once unlocked work on the Oracle first (but keep an eye on your free engineer in your capital!) once you unlock it as competition for it can be rough on Emperor and the National College isn't going anywhere.

"2-3" cities is a very rough estimate. It really depends on starting position. If there are no juicy spots in your area than it's ok to stay with just one city for a bit or maybe two (free settler in Liberty Tree is very nice). So one game I might just have 1 city (my capital) for a period of time and in others I might have my capital plus 2 or 3 more. Building que in new cities should be Monument+Library so your ready for the National College but don't be afraid to pump out an archer or two if you need them.

Your starting position and neighbors will really dictate how the game goes so keep an open mind and don't be afraid to scrap a strategy for a new one;-)

[gnorf73]

Originally posted by zxcvbob:

...how do you just casually conquer cities for their resources? Each time i have tried that the whole world turns on me. Are things different with all the expansions, or am i just not doing it properly?

Did you take a city from another civ, or a city-state? Most of the civs hate it when you take CS's -- unless you're Genghis Kahn, it's kind of expected of him. They mostly forgive taking one city (not the capital) from a civ and then negotiating peace (except Gandhi)

I got attacked by the arabs (i forget the leaders name) so i got angry and wiped them off the map. I've learned since that everyone gets really upset if you annihilate a civ so i guess that's the reason.

[Orlock]

Originally posted by gnorf73:

I've played 2 games of this so far.. If you don't count the 10 times i started over when i realized i majorly screwed up. I just purchased one of the expansions yesterday so maybe things are different for you guys playing with all of them. But my question is how do you just casually conquer cities for their resources? Each time i have tried that the whole world turns on me. Are things different with all the expansions, or am i just not doing it properly?

If you are completely new to Civ 5 you should perhaps try some Warlord level games. You can play around and get an idea of how things work together. If you find a strategy for yourself and start winning games you can still go to prince or higher difficulties

[gnorf73]

Originally posted by Orlock:

Originally posted by gnorf73:

I've played 2 games of this so far.. If you don't count the 10 times i started over when i realized i majorly screwed up. I just purchased one of the expansions yesterday so maybe things are different for you guys playing with all of them. But my question is how do you just casually conquer cities for their resources? Each time i have tried that the whole world turns on me. Are things different with all the expansions, or am i just not doing it properly?

If you are completely new to Civ 5 you should perhaps try some Warlord level games. You can play around and get an idea of how things work together. If you find a strategy for yourself and start winning games you can still go to prince or higher difficulties

I started out on prince. I'm not new to these types of games and i think it was civ 3 i played on the 360. I don't care how many times i have to start over though, i enjoy it. I don't like to get used to winning on an easy difficulty because i feel like the strats i learn won't be as refined and probably not viable on higher difficulty. You may have a point though but i guess i just like getting beat down ;)