On The Ottoman Empire

[Twelvefield]

Some time ago, I posted a thread discussing the pros and cons of Denmark. I am following up with a thread on The Ottoman Empire. Why? It's been years since the Ottomans showed up: they are one of the vanilla civs. It took me a long time to get around to them.

Even so, my experience with the Ottomans was one mistake following yet another. I never got the hang of them. The trick to the Ottomans is that they have what I like to think of as 2.5 UU's, since their UA folds neatly into naval technology and they have no UB's. So, they seem to me primed for Domination by conquest but not strong in other areas. The Ottomans should also be strong naval powers.

That was my first mistake. I played on a Continents map, where I should have been playing an islands map, like Polynesia. Ottoman melee boats have the ability to capture other ships, which should make for a powerful early navy. What happens if nobody else builds ships? That happened to me for the first time that I can recall. Even the barbarians refused to build boats. So I guess that's a decent primary defence against the Ottoman Empire: they cannot capture the ships you don't build.

On land, the Ottomans become formidable in the late Renaissance, with powerful Janissaries and Sipahi cavalry. The Janissary is designed as an attack unit. You get bonuses to attack plus an automatic heal if it kills an enemy. They seem to last a fairly long time on the field since they are more powerful than the musketmen they replace and they upgrade nicely into riflemen. The Janissary seems to be the key unit for the Ottomans: you'll want to rush with them.

The Sipahis are another story, although they too are suprisingly powerful. They are still cavalry, though, and retain both the devastating speed of horsey units as well as their fragility. You can't depend on waves of them to roll over a defensive enemy. What they will do is pillage at least as well as the Vikings. Sipahi don't need a MP to pillage, which makes just one of them behind enemy lines a potential H-bomb to the enemy economy. They can run amok, pillaging as they go, and then run away to heal or avoid retribution, making chasing a Sipahi an onerous task. You can use Sipahi to lure enemy units away from their defensive positions. Sipahis upgrade into AT guns, which just don't do a lot for me. On the other hand, you don't need more than a couple Sipahis to wreck an enemy's tiles.

Without science, culture, or gold, and in my case without a terrifying navy, it's a grind to try to keep the Ottomans up to speed with the rest of the world. By the time you can wield Janissaries, the world has become a complicated and dangerous place. If the Ottomans are among "small fish" civs, presumably they could come to dominate their continent (or island chain) as they did in real life. But if you have ambitious neighbours, you might end up fighting to keep what you hold -- and the Janissaries and Sipahi aren't particularly defensive.

After the Renaissance, I can't say I knew what to do with the Ottomans. I more or less just rode the game out. I did beeline Chemistry, but only because there's a picture of an Ottoman scientist as the icon... an eerie eyeless chap whose peepers seem to have been melted out of their sockets, creepy!

Anyways, your thoughts and experiences regarding The Ottoman Empire in Civ V would be welcome!

[heatson]

In my opinion, the Ottomans are best for a "continents" map.

For starters, build a navy and destroy barbarian ships until you reach the Renaissance Era. If you do not start coastal, however, things will not go well for you. Once you get you Janissaries, start destroying your neighbors since they are so OP. Sipahis are great for hit-and-run tactics for going in, pillaging, then retreating before the enemy can retaliate. But, without horses, how can you do this?

Build up the Janissaries becuase when the become opsolete, you will want to upgrade them so they keep their bonuses. If you don't do this, the only thing that becomes useful is your very cheap navy which works best for an island like map. They only thing that makes them situational (or UP) is not being near the coast.

[JVteam]

" Sipahis upgrade into AT guns, which just don't do a lot for me."
But you didn't take it one step farther... AT guns upgrade to Helicopter Gunships, meaning you have a no movement cost to pillage unit that ignores terrain cost and can travel over mountains.

[Matthew]

I just rely on the bread and butter strategy of spamming artillery and keeping a few infantry up front fortified down to block off enemy troops. The Janissary are indeed an offensive unit, but their role still remains the same--which for me is to get double cover promo's ASAP and fortify down. What the heal on kill does do (along with the attack bonus) is allow them to move on the battlefield much more easily than generic infantry. And mobility is huge, even in a 1UPT turn-based game.

For example, consider if you have an infantry on a tile getting bombarded by enemy ranged. He is fine, because he has 40% increased protection from fortification and healing every turn (preferably with a medic promoted unit within range). Now you want to move him. Well, in doing so you are giving the enemy a free turn to attack him at lower health and no fortify bonus. In the case of the Janissary, there are plenty of opportunities to weaken an enemy unit down to red, then finish it off with the Janissary you want to move. The Janissary heals to full (or nearly), ensuring its survival in the following turn.

A bit difficult to explain in text. One of those things that don't seem that awesome on paper, but in-game it really does make a huge difference. Basically the "March" promo with a requirement. But you get it right away, and the requirement isn't too difficult to work around.

I'd take Janissary over Musketeers (although they are awesome, too), Minutemen, and Samurai. And yes, upgraded Azteken Jaguars have a similar ability, so they are great in that scenario as well. Swedish Carolean, too, of course. But they come later.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by jrocker314:

" Sipahis upgrade into AT guns, which just don't do a lot for me."
But you didn't take it one step farther... AT guns upgrade to Helicopter Gunships, meaning you have a no movement cost to pillage unit that ignores terrain cost and can travel over mountains.

You are 100% correct there - I almost always ignore helos, they just aren't in my Civ vocabulary.

Another use for the Sipahi that I failed to mention is that they get a 1 hex sight bonus, so they can make good spotters for artillery. They only thing is that Sipahi are such great pillagers, it seems a shame to keep them chained to arty which is so slow and cumbersome.

I wish I could get Janissaries a little earlier in the game. Maybe it's the way that I play, or maybe that you need buckets of resources, science, gold, and happiness to support the Ottomans in glory just to get to the Janissaries, but they seem to arrive just a little late on the stage to be truly dominant. I'll have to try harder next time.

[Matthew]

You aren't trying to bee-line straight to them, are you? It is a fun strategy, but difficult to pull off (or more accurately, difficult to maintain the game unless you close it out immediately, because you will fall behind).

Education can be delayed though. Build up a strong base with NC and don't go heavy on culture. You want to get to Renaissance before your 7th policy hits (opener + full tree taking up other 6). Then pick up Rationalism opener and Secularism as soon as you can. Work available culture slots and any hammer/gold slots you can without hurting growth. Can also combine with Liberty and place the free GP as a scientist down for an academy, but not needed. This should allow you to keep blazing towards artillery without falling behind.

No need to finish Rat if you don't want to, or even bee-line any of the other science techs. It is just to cover that gap from putting off Education. I add this because if I recall correctly you don't care much for the typical forced meta-game off focusing on hardcore science. But opener and 1 tech into Rat isn't too bad. Can even grab Oracle to drop that down to a 1 policy investment.

Oh and also you can use the first great writer or two on their instant culture boost to get the two Rat policies quicker. The moment you start capturing cities, you will begin picking up additional great works, so there is no long-term tourism loss.

[ajhartman65]

Personally I like to go small continents instead continents or pangea if using a civ with a naval flavor, gives a lot more coastline to use/abuse but still enough land to do things before you start focusing on a navy.

On the subject of Janisarries, they are a great "defensive" unit to stick in the vanguard with a ranged unit (or three) behind, then just use the janissary to finish off the enemy unit/s and heal themselves in the process.

Sipahi (like other "lancer" units) is supposed to be a hunter/killer of knights/cav units, but tends to be a bit better in that role than most other lancer types due to the increased movement and the pillage heals along the way, not to mention the increased sight range to keep those pesky horses in sight as they flee from you.

Overall I feel the Ottamans are a fairly good civ as long as you have a coastal start (or close enough for your second city to produce a few ships). I can't even begin to count how many privateers and even destroyers I've gotten for free due to the UA, and all you need to have near is a galley which doesn't even need to attack anything (as compared to Germany needing to disband the barbarian village to get a shot at one free unit).

[zxcvbob]

I played a game of Vanilla recently using Ottomans (to get an achievement that doesn't work in BNW) and played on an archipelago map. I had /just/ enough land units to get by, and an *enormous* navy. When someone was stupid enough to DOW me (because I looked weak) and I clobbered them, I refused to settle a peace deal, just using their cities for target practice until my ships got range and logistics promotions.

One thing I remember about Sipahi is I used one to attack an artillery that Bismarck managed to sneak onto my island via a CS, and it didn't kill it. The crippled arty was then able to one-shot my Sipahi. (don't know if it would've gone down that way in GK or BNW)

They were a lot of fun to play, and I will definitely try them again with BNW. (did they nerf the barbarian conversion thing when they gave everything Prize Ships?)

[Twelvefield]

The Ottomans did get a rule change with G&K. Barbarian conversion is gone, but you get Prize Ship on melee ships only and a reduction in naval maintenance costs. The hit point system got changed, so a crippled arty would not one-shot a Sipahi.

I like these ideas for how to play the Ottoman Empire! I usually have no problem containing them when the AI plays them, but it's always good to know the sneaky human tricks.

[Crim]

Ottoman are GODLY on Continents, they are literally made for it

Super Early game should be devoted for Science, Either National College or Universites depending on how early you want to begin your Rampage. I personally feel NC is enough.

Early Game Beeline STRAIGHT to Gunpowder, Don't delay yourself capturing garbage Barb ships. Use the Gunpowder Rush to catch opponents offguard with insane Janisary, You should be able to easily sweep most of your continent with Janissary and Trebuchet, Research Cannons if you get slowed down mid way, but you should be focusing on Universities so you do not fall further behind in Science.

Early Mid Game Now that you own your continent (at least most of it), and you have Universities, it is time to begin Phase 2. Naval Domination, clean up the important ancient/classic research and Beeline into Privateers and Frigates. Prepare about half dozen of each and assault the next continent, capturing the Naval Cities while your Janissary swim across the ocean. After you have established a solid beach head for your Janissary to land, hold ground! You will likely be really behind in infrastructure and your Janissary have probably begun to start fighting Gatling Guns, and you should take a breather to get to your Jans promoted before beginning your Phase 3

Phase 3 is difficult, there is no true time for it, you will need to gauge it and act when you feel is appropriate. Especially since by this time, your only bonus is Sea domination and any Janissary you managed to promote/upgrade. Your overwhelming power has diminished (similar to what happened to Ottoman in real life). This is when Sipahi become useful. Have them slow down your remaining opponents to give you a chance to catch up

[Tummy Ruffles]

All i know is he is a huge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of an AI

[zxcvbob]

On any map where *all* the cities are coastal, you can run wild with frigates and caravels, (because of the low unit maintenance) and it gets even better when they upgrade to batteships, ironclads, and destroyers. You hardly need any land units. Just make sure you have a little iron and coal, and lots of oil.