Why does everyone think XCOM squads need nerfed?

[ILKA]

Hey, I always come across forums, looking for the removal, or nerf of them, but I use them, and they are quite weak in my opinion. Infanty is far stronger, most artillery or air units will make short work of them, in my opinion, nothing needs to change, well, maybe the some civ IV diplomacy options :)

[tangoafterdark]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ⎛The Crimson ♥♥♥♥♥♥⎞:

what if you disabled any other victories beside domination?

Disabling VCs breaks the game far more than any unit. The AI is not even capable of winning by Domination.

XCOMs are OP and they're supposed to be. As you approach the end of the tech tree, techs/units become much more powerful - look at nuclear missiles, the Internet, stealth bombers, etc. The game is basically telling you to "hurry up and win". It's no accident that stealth bombers and XCOMs can clear a map in 15 turns and Modern Armor can clear a map in 30 turns.

[Virgil]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Santander:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ⎛The Crimson ♥♥♥♥♥♥⎞:

what if you disabled any other victories beside domination?

Disabling VCs breaks the game far more than any unit. The AI is not even capable of winning by Domination.

XCOMs are OP and they're supposed to be. As you approach the end of the tech tree, techs/units become much more powerful - look at nuclear missiles, the Internet, stealth bombers, etc. The game is basically telling you to "hurry up and win". It's no accident that stealth bombers and XCOMs can clear a map in 15 turns and Modern Armor can clear a map in 30 turns.

You just stated what I wanted to say in a very succinct and accurate manner. Thank you. I agree 100%.

[Alucard †]

i'm not an expert either started my adventure with Civ 5 not long ago and over 100 hrs in this game is next to nothing compared to how many hours veterans of this game put in
but it dosent take an expert to see that with these units capturing a city is a no brainer

as for the AI not producing Xcom units .. i sometimes seen them produce 2-3 but very rarely
but yeah they never really used their Skyranger ability

[Virgil]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ⎛The Crimson ♥♥♥♥♥♥⎞:

i'm not an expert either started my adventure with Civ 5 not long ago and over 100 hrs in this game is next to nothing compared to how many hours veterans of this game put in
but it dosent take an expert to see that with these units capturing a city is a no brainer

as for the AI not producing Xcom units .. i sometimes seen them produce 2-3 but very rarely
but yeah they never really used their Skyranger ability

I agree with you on that front. I don't believe XCOM is overpowerd but I will admit in Civ 5 the AI is rather incom

[gimmethegepgun]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย @!#*:

also they can only paradrop in frienly territory

Incorrect. You need to have vision of a tile for them to paradrop to it. XCOM troopers have a range of 40, which is how far a cargo ship with compass and refrigeration, but no harbor, can go.
All you need is line of sight on one square, then you can drop one in and get LOS for more, and the range is HUGE.

[Virgil]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย gimmethegepgun:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย @!#*:

also they can only paradrop in frienly territory

Incorrect. You need to have vision of a tile for them to paradrop to it. XCOM troopers have a range of 40, which is how far a cargo ship with compass and refrigeration, but no harbor, can go.
All you need is line of sight on one square, then you can drop one in and get LOS for more, and the range is HUGE.

Thank you.

[Damsteri]

My opinion is that XCOM is just as what it has designed to be, which is OP end game unit to end the game that should have ended long ago. Remember, this game is not designed to be played over the designed length (year 2050), because there are some problems after that, hence there is the time victory and OP end game units to make sure that the game ends.

My games rarely even goes that far, player has done something stupid/unwise if his/hers strategies includes XCOM squad. Game should have been won long before you get the XCOM, if you target is domination victory. And, you should be win any other victory condition well before AI civs get them.

[sickVisionz]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ⎛The Crimson ♥♥♥♥♥♥⎞:

Deploy xcom around city you want to take over
skip move
next turn
pillage tiles around city to restore any health lost from enemy defensive attacks
attack
profit

its not rocket science you know

Is this a knock on XCOMs or Civ's battle system? What you described is my approach to attacking any city, regardless of units. Plus, the AI is dumb. I wouldn't take them not being able to handle something as anything more than Civ 5 working as it was designed.

[Alucard †]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย sickVisionz:

Not gonna lie, if it's everyone

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ⎛The Crimson ♥♥♥♥♥♥⎞:

Deploy xcom around city you want to take over
skip move
next turn
pillage tiles around city to restore any health lost from enemy defensive attacks
attack
profit

its not rocket science you know

Is this a knock on XCOMs or Civ's battle system? What you described is my approach to attacking any city, regardless of units. Plus, the AI is dumb. I wouldn't take them not being able to handle something as anything more than Civ 5 working as it was designed.

Xcom
because you can literally teleport them across the map directly near enemy city
i forgot to add you need to send a spy to the city you want to attack
or have embassy
with other units you need to actualy travel or position the units

Xcom squad? ♥♥♥♥ THAAT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ we have Skyranger! :P

put a spy in city you want to capture then just pretty much spam xcom units at it from afar
by the time AI realizes what happened city is yours

rinse and repeat
domination victory won

[Moon]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Damsteri:

My opinion is that XCOM is just as what it has designed to be, which is OP end game unit to end the game that should have ended long ago. Remember, this game is not designed to be played over the designed length (year 2050), because there are some problems after that, hence there is the time victory and OP end game units to make sure that the game ends.

My games rarely even goes that far, player has done something stupid/unwise if his/hers strategies includes XCOM squad. Game should have been won long before you get the XCOM, if you target is domination victory. And, you should be win any other victory condition well before AI civs get them.

Yes, perhaps the game "should be won" before then (at least against AI), but the fact is that XCOM squads are easy to acquire in the early 1900's by rushing through the atomic/information era tech tree. Their power makes almost all other mil. units nearly obsolete, aside from naval units, nukes and maybe stealth bombers. I just find it a bit boring.

I guess the sort-of issue here is not the xcom unit but the late game design, where everything gets so bonkers that something like this is needed.

[tangoafterdark]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Moon:

Yes, perhaps the game "should be won" before then (at least against AI), but the fact is that XCOM squads are easy to acquire in the early 1900's by rushing through the atomic/information era tech tree. Their power makes almost all other mil. units nearly obsolete, aside from naval units, nukes and maybe stealth bombers. I just find it a bit boring.

Isn't 1900 like T350? Hardly rushing through the tech tree...

[zxcvbob]

Good point, I do know the AI is notoriously inadequate when it comes to using their units in an intelligent manner. I also see a distinct lack of XCOM produced by my enemies. Coupled with the AI's inadequacy in warfare I can see how XCOM is devastating in the hands of a human player.

I have seen the AI's use paratroopers very effectively (and cheat doing so) It was either Alexander or Caesar, I don't remember which. He had 0 gold and minus GPT, but he'd buy a bunch of paratroopers every turn and drop them into my territory and pillage my luxuries, mines, and roads. I'd kill them (instead of attacking his city like I should have been doing), and next turn 5 or 6 more would show up. Impossible for a human player to do even if you have enough gold because you can only buy one unit per turn (except landsknechts) and can't move them until the next turn.

[Moon]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Santander:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Moon:

Yes, perhaps the game "should be won" before then (at least against AI), but the fact is that XCOM squads are easy to acquire in the early 1900's by rushing through the atomic/information era tech tree. Their power makes almost all other mil. units nearly obsolete, aside from naval units, nukes and maybe stealth bombers. I just find it a bit boring.

Isn't 1900 like T350? Hardly rushing through the tech tree...

Yeah, but the person I was replying to implied that xcoms come to play nearer to 2050, when the game definately should be over.

[Damsteri]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Moon:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Santander:

Isn't 1900 like T350? Hardly rushing through the tech tree...

Yeah, but the person I was replying to implied that xcoms come to play nearer to 2050, when the game definately should be over.

Well, T500 is year 2050. But... I didn't mean that when I was talking that game should definately be over. Most games, at least higher level ends well before T500, usually before T400. Most of my games in my hall of fame have ended between T300 and T350.

[Small L]

What I understand that in 30 seconds to take a city. But conventionly you can also use mechenized infantry to take cities. I get the point of useing xcoms to go eassily take cities, But imagine if the city had 200 city defence or 150 city defence. It's kinda hard! So if that happened would you bring xcoms or get GDRs,rocket arttilery, and mech infantry to take the city?

The most logical thing to do is bring the millitary insted of the xcoms. And sometimes in domination victory. It lasts until like 579 turns so that means you need more stuff that is not x coms