AI gives 2 gold for 1 resource

[real power]

If you find 6 iron or horse in the beginning of the game, you can sell it for 12 gold per turn to AIs. They obviously don't need this iron in the beginning of the game, so it means they just throw away gold to you, and it can ruin their economics. Recently I started to feel bad about this because this trick just gives too much advantage over them. Isn't it abuse or cheating?

[knighttemplar1960]

Don't feel bad. The AIs cheat. They can run a deficit of 100 gold (or more) per turn and none of their units disband. You can't break their economies. The game's AI is so poorly written the devs made this change because it was easier to defeat an enemy economically than militarily when the game was first released.

[real power]

Ok, now I feel bad because of poorly written AI
Why couldn't they make it decent?

[Simons Mith]

Smart AIs are really hard to write. And programmers can get almost the same results as a smarter AI by giving a stupider AI some built-in cheats. And back when processing power was more restricted, cheating AIs was the only feasible choice, frankly. We may have more processing power now, but the development costs of coding a /really/ smart AI would be - well, any amount you might want to spend on it, and there would always be still more you could do, by spending a bit more time and money.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by swollen:

Ok, now I feel bad because of poorly written AI
Why couldn't they make it decent?

They could have. Why they didn't I don't know. The AI for the Vox Populi mod is much more sophisticated than the AI built into the game.

[OwlRaider]

Yeah, it's an issue with how the game handles rounding. It's been like this since forever, congratulations on finally figuring it out now...?

[Bfloo]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by swollen:

Ok, now I feel bad because of poorly written AI
Why couldn't they make it decent?

They could have. Why they didn't I don't know. The AI for the Vox Populi mod is much more sophisticated than the AI built into the game.

They didn't put much effort into how the ai moves their military either. ranged units love blocking their melee when attacking.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Don't feel bad. The AIs cheat. They can run a deficit of 100 gold (or more) per turn and none of their units disband. You can't break their economies. The game's AI is so poorly written the devs made this change because it was easier to defeat an enemy economically than militarily when the game was first released.

i also run -200 or more gold per turn and my units does not disband. Does it mean i cheat?

[real power]

Originally posted by OwlRaider:

Yeah, it's an issue with how the game handles rounding. It's been like this since forever, congratulations on finally figuring it out now...?

Well, so-oory, for not being as smart as you are. Previously I just sold every horse and iron I could get for 2 GPT and thought that it's supposed to be like this. But then I started to think that maybe it's just a stupid bug and AIs shouldn't give human player their gold in such way. Replies in this thread confirmed this thought.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Bfloo:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

They could have. Why they didn't I don't know. The AI for the Vox Populi mod is much more sophisticated than the AI built into the game.

They didn't put much effort into how the ai moves their military either. ranged units love blocking their melee when attacking.

They also didn't account for how different civs abilities play into things like expansion. For instance Iroquois don't have to build roads through forest tiles inside their territory but the culture spread AI focuses on food and forest tiles are one of the things that it expands into later making that ability (and their long house) mostly useless. Iroquois also don't need much iron but if an iron deposit shows up in a forest tile you can't construct a lumber mill on it. You have to leave it intact or mine it.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Don't feel bad. The AIs cheat. They can run a deficit of 100 gold (or more) per turn and none of their units disband. You can't break their economies. The game's AI is so poorly written the devs made this change because it was easier to defeat an enemy economically than militarily when the game was first released.

i also run -200 or more gold per turn and my units does not disband. Does it mean i cheat?

I don't know, do you? You can run a gold deficit if you have enough in your treasury to cover it until you can solve your cash flow problem.

If your treasury is empty and you are running negative gold you lose 1 science per gold you are short. If that happens for too long your units will start disbanding. The only way to prevent that is to use a mod, exploit, a cheese, or a hack.

The AI on the other hand only suffers the -science per turn penalty. They can build a huge army and sweep across a continent, even with an empty treasury and a huge per turn deficit.

The AI's difficulty is set to Chieftain level and it gets additional bonuses depending on player difficulty level which include more starting techs, a work rate bonus, reduced unhappiness, higher growth rates, lower construction rates, reduced building costs, reduced unit costs, and higher unit supply.

If you play on higher difficulty levels the AI usually has more gold because it can't spend it as fast as their bonuses let them earn it.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by Bfloo:

They didn't put much effort into how the ai moves their military either. ranged units love blocking their melee when attacking.

They also didn't account for how different civs abilities play into things like expansion. For instance Iroquois don't have to build roads through forest tiles inside their territory but the culture spread AI focuses on food and forest tiles are one of the things that it expands into later making that ability (and their long house) mostly useless. Iroquois also don't need much iron but if an iron deposit shows up in a forest tile you can't construct a lumber mill on it. You have to leave it intact or mine it.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

i also run -200 or more gold per turn and my units does not disband. Does it mean i cheat?

I don't know, do you? You can run a gold deficit if you have enough in your treasury to cover it until you can solve your cash flow problem.

If your treasury is empty and you are running negative gold you lose 1 science per gold you are short. If that happens for too long your units will start disbanding. The only way to prevent that is to use a mod, exploit, a cheese, or a hack.

The AI on the other hand only suffers the -science per turn penalty. They can build a huge army and sweep across a continent, even with an empty treasury and a huge per turn deficit.

The AI's difficulty is set to Chieftain level and it gets additional bonuses depending on player difficulty level which include more starting techs, a work rate bonus, reduced unhappiness, higher growth rates, lower construction rates, reduced building costs, reduced unit costs, and higher unit supply.

If you play on higher difficulty levels the AI usually has more gold because it can't spend it as fast as their bonuses let them earn it.

ofc i do. And the same way AI does.
You dont need to be stand positive after deduction. You only need to be positive when you pas the turn. So even if you have 1 gold - in treasury - no units will disband. Make sure you have some gold at the end of turn and you`re safe.

In early game it is harder to make sure you have gold each turn, but it is also less relevant. But by midgame you can. And in lategame you cna have massive armies all thanks to my friend caravansary: builds 1 turn, dont have gold upkeep, and you can sell it right after building.

Also on high diff all ai runs around with negative income, but most of that gold is, just like player can do, by extorting CS, dot due to some imagined "bonuses".

Ai have advantages over human player in high diffs, obviously, but it is always fascinating, that in EVERY game people try to push anything they dont immidiately understand as "ai cheat",instead of trying to find a way to do the same. And it always like that, in every strategy game i played and looked around from community, which is double as hillarious, as strategy games supposed to be played by "smarties", which should, by definition, have critical thinking as default mode of operation.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

They also didn't account for how different civs abilities play into things like expansion. For instance Iroquois don't have to build roads through forest tiles inside their territory but the culture spread AI focuses on food and forest tiles are one of the things that it expands into later making that ability (and their long house) mostly useless. Iroquois also don't need much iron but if an iron deposit shows up in a forest tile you can't construct a lumber mill on it. You have to leave it intact or mine it.




I don't know, do you? You can run a gold deficit if you have enough in your treasury to cover it until you can solve your cash flow problem.

If your treasury is empty and you are running negative gold you lose 1 science per gold you are short. If that happens for too long your units will start disbanding. The only way to prevent that is to use a mod, exploit, a cheese, or a hack.

The AI on the other hand only suffers the -science per turn penalty. They can build a huge army and sweep across a continent, even with an empty treasury and a huge per turn deficit.

The AI's difficulty is set to Chieftain level and it gets additional bonuses depending on player difficulty level which include more starting techs, a work rate bonus, reduced unhappiness, higher growth rates, lower construction rates, reduced building costs, reduced unit costs, and higher unit supply.

If you play on higher difficulty levels the AI usually has more gold because it can't spend it as fast as their bonuses let them earn it.

ofc i do. And the same way AI does.
You dont need to be stand positive after deduction. You only need to be positive when you pas the turn. So even if you have 1 gold - in treasury - no units will disband. Make sure you have some gold at the end of turn and you`re safe.

In early game it is harder to make sure you have gold each turn, but it is also less relevant. But by midgame you can. And in lategame you cna have massive armies all thanks to my friend caravansary: builds 1 turn, dont have gold upkeep, and you can sell it right after building.

Also on high diff all ai runs around with negative income, but most of that gold is, just like player can do, by extorting CS, dot due to some imagined "bonuses".

Ai have advantages over human player in high diffs, obviously, but it is always fascinating, that in EVERY game people try to push anything they dont immidiately understand as "ai cheat",instead of trying to find a way to do the same. And it always like that, in every strategy game i played and looked around from community, which is double as hillarious, as strategy games supposed to be played by "smarties", which should, by definition, have critical thinking as default mode of operation.

The table on this page of this wiki lists the bonuses and penalties and how they affect game play based on the difficulty settings you select at the beginning of the game. The bonus are not "imagined", they are built into the AI.
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ5)

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

ofc i do. And the same way AI does.
You dont need to be stand positive after deduction. You only need to be positive when you pas the turn. So even if you have 1 gold - in treasury - no units will disband. Make sure you have some gold at the end of turn and you`re safe.

In early game it is harder to make sure you have gold each turn, but it is also less relevant. But by midgame you can. And in lategame you cna have massive armies all thanks to my friend caravansary: builds 1 turn, dont have gold upkeep, and you can sell it right after building.

Also on high diff all ai runs around with negative income, but most of that gold is, just like player can do, by extorting CS, dot due to some imagined "bonuses".

Ai have advantages over human player in high diffs, obviously, but it is always fascinating, that in EVERY game people try to push anything they dont immidiately understand as "ai cheat",instead of trying to find a way to do the same. And it always like that, in every strategy game i played and looked around from community, which is double as hillarious, as strategy games supposed to be played by "smarties", which should, by definition, have critical thinking as default mode of operation.

The table on this page of this wiki lists the bonuses and penalties and how they affect game play based on the difficulty settings you select at the beginning of the game. The bonus are not "imagined", they are built into the AI.
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ5)

THank you for sharing this link.

I hope now you see how your imagination running ahead of your judgement.

And that is pretty much what i said about earlier. And it happens every time, even with open sources avialable to a player. They still prefer to imagine things and ascribe non-existent properties to AI instead of thinking critically.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

The table on this page of this wiki lists the bonuses and penalties and how they affect game play based on the difficulty settings you select at the beginning of the game. The bonus are not "imagined", they are built into the AI.
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ5)

THank you for sharing this link.

I hope now you see how your imagination running ahead of your judgement.

And that is pretty much what i said about earlier. And it happens every time, even with open sources avialable to a player. They still prefer to imagine things and ascribe non-existent properties to AI instead of thinking critically.

Thanks for agreeing that its not imagined and is, as demonstrated, built in.