So I don't get this. Why provoke war if you're just going to cry about hte outcome?

[~Panda]

Me and Carthage were best of friends. Trading together, defeating barbs together, declared war against Japan together because they were committing genocide against city states. Everything great, best of friends.

Then.. caught her spying on me. I mean fair enough, it happens even in real life. I let it slide this time. She asked for forgiveness, I gave.

...Then caught again. Being more than fair, I let it slide once more.

....THEN caught again. Okay I'm getting annoyed now, I demenaded she stopped.

CAUGHT AGAIN.

I ended the declaration of friendship and then denounced her,

Now the entire world hates me?! Was I not more than fair?! Anyway, she did it again so obviously there was only one solution left - all out war. Now I'm a warmonger?! How?? She's the one constantly spying deliberately provoking the war.

Anyway now they're all crying and whining and throwing a temper tantrum even though they're the ones who started it but somehow I'm the bad guy to the rest of the world.

Messed up logic.

Anyway, is there a mod that disables spying if DoF'd? Entire world has descended into a mass world war mess.

[zxcvbob]

It sounds like you need to pay the AI's to fight each other, to keep them busy.

I usually try to take-over control of the World Congress, then I don't care if everybody hates me. :D They're gonna hate me eventually anyway, might as well plan for it.

[Belsaris]

lol welcom to Civ 5. Be sure to check the diplomacy screen before taking a negative action. When a civ has a bunch of friendship with rest of the civs everyone will hate you if you denouce or declare war on them and it is very hard to undo unless you find some cities to liberate. Civs are like a herd of cattle in this game. Sometimes funny but often frustrating.

[~Panda]

I ended up taking 3 of her cities as puppets and her remaining 2 cities are under my vassalage. She gets to be a puppet leader. Now she's constantly crying and whining and her friends calling me a tyrant as though it's my fault??

How about... just stop spying when I ask you to then it wouldn't spiral into war?? Just annoying how I'm somehow the bad guy for asking nicely several times for them to stop and THEY chose not to, THEY chose war, not me, yet I'm the warmonger. Makes no sense. I wish there was a more diplomatic route. All you get is an option to forgive, ask to stop, denounce and then war. Nothing inbetween.

Should be an option to 'ban embassy' or 'ban entry into the country' or 'end all diplomatic relations' where they can't contact you, can't trade, can't step foot in your borders for X amount of time. Like when there's a diplomatic incident in real life and embassies get shut down and all diplomats/officials deported.

[Emergent]

You mistake the AI to be some sort of intelligent human being. It is not. Far from it. It reacts nonsensically, and you'll just have to learn those quirks to then use them against it.

[~Panda]

Yeah.

I've had Civ 5 in my library forever, since it came out. But never played it because of the horribly coded AI. Came across Vox Populi though so thought I'd give it a go, it's surprisingly impressive. Definitely makes the game playable. Still, they can only do so much to fix it

[zxcvbob]

Everyone turned on you because you denounced someone you had a declaration of friendship with ("backstabbed") The only thing worse a human player can do (the AI's seem forgiving of each other for backstabbing) is declaring war on a friend. She wasn't your friend anymore when you got around to DoW'ing, but the damage was already done.

The diplomacy isn't that bad once you figure out how to use it to your advantage. Make friends with *almost* everyone early on. Single out one AI to shun. Bribe that one to go to war with your best friend, then denounce them for it. :) If they won't accept a bribe, denounce them for that! :D

[Belsaris]

If you think about it though if Carthage was your friend why not do a research treaty? Might have discouraged the spying. Her reaction kind of makes sense, it's like the US catching a Swedish spy then denouncing Sweden. Sweden would be like why are you so angry? You have all this advanced tech and refuse to share it with your 'ally.' Then every other country in the world coming to Sweden's defense saying yeah the US is too big, too arrogant and needs to be taken down a notch. Denouncements should have less weight though. Not very realistic the whole world goes to war over somebody saying something stupid... or is it?

[cerberusiv]

Quite simple really, the AI simply isn't coded to stop spying even if they say they will.

Either live with it (if you have techs they don't you are winning anyway so what is the problem?) or go to war and if you capture some cities expect to be considered a warmonger.

Basically, once you take a few cities in the late game everyone will call you a warmonger, refuse to trade luxuries to you, try and pass WC/UN resolutions to embargo you and ban your luxuries and generally be as difficult as possible. You know it is going to happen if you make certain decisions so plan for it, tech to the military you will need, build/buy your forces, ally with enough city states to control the WC and kill them all.

[Gronmor]

Hey, you're the one that went to war over some spying! Just spy back. Eye for an eye, you know?

You overreacted to it, truly. Surely you had spies in cities as well, didn't you? Did other civilization go to war with you because of it?

[ReoHays]

You can get away with one negitive, but two in a row, expect the AI to pounce. You did like 6 or 7, thats the way the AI works. 1st put a spy in the city they are in, the higher the level the better, then research techs that get you a police station. You must be playing a LvL4(prince) or lower, tobe out researching the AI. So what does it matter? You can do what ever you want at that LvL. @LvL6 you tend to catch up around the Ren. Era, LvL7 Late Ren is posible, but more likley Industrial or Modern. LvL8 Modern is the earliest I got. It helps to be behind the AI in research, becouse they dont see you as a threat and they underestamate you. Just play defencive and dont spread out too quickly and build alot of units early, fall behind tech wise and steal it when you get your spies.

[the_charch]

btw you can shut off espionage on the advanced setup when you make the game.

[just.nuke.em]

Originally posted by Cmdr McTosh:

Now the entire world hates me?!

Best to just nuke everyone and call it a day

[dcain3456]

If you're not being spied on, you're not worth spying on. Just keep killing her agents.

[cuqeen]

I don't know why you think AI is nonsense, looks good to me.
You forgive spying, the other civ keeps on spying. What's funny? You forgive them and tell them to keep on doing it.
The other civ's friends will hate you, that's natural and realistic. You confuse global real life diplomacy with religion's sense of right and wrong and TV news, where leaders go and say all kind of silly nonsense to please the masses.
Always remember, the other civs are there to win the game, not to satisfy any feelings you happen to get any time.

[cuqeen]

Spying is good, don't use silly mods.