skill loss on death too high. whats the point?

[Akita]

I had my bows to 30. Now it 18. Had sword in low 30s. now its low 20s. whats the point of working on skills when you will loose them. You can die from jumping off a rock. dont fall off the stairs. way too easy to die, and the loss is staggering. I dont see any point on working on skills anymore. Loosing interest fast.

[Lapinoire]

Escrito originalmente por Death2Gnomes:

This is whats wrong with the learn by doing skills, and why 7D2D moved away from that. This is cheesing the system.

It 200% is cheesing the system-- however, there is no need to do that. Simply playing the game and hunting resources on your own is more than enough to raise your levels to high points.

In the case of bows, leveling it gets easier and easier the higher your skill level is, because you can shoot full charged shots faster the higher your skill level is. The amount of arrows is negligible, when they're easy enough to mass-produce.

By the time I started farming Black Metal in the plains, I was roughly ~72 Bow skill. Now, after making almost all the Black Metal stuff that I wanted to make, I am 90... or 91 Bow skill. I'd have to check. That other guy keeps saying it's impossible to level up that fast, but my guess is that they don't exactly understand how the system works ha.

[The Shattered Grin]

Escrito originalmente por FadeXF:

Escrito originalmente por Sheldin 夜秋夢:

Dude, just grab your bow and shoot a rock with wood arrows - you gain xp that way too. quick, cheap and easy. No big deal reaching a high skill level of a certain skill in this game if you either cheese it or use it all the time. No need for commands.

I've collected roughly oh 300 feathers or so - and crafted and shot oh roughly 1500-2k total arrows... right now I have zero feathers because I just shot 500 into a boss - that includes holy crap how many chests with every single arrow type known to man... actively opening every chest I've found... and it just so happens right now I'm down to 75 arrows because I've crafted, and shot every single one I found.

This guy is saying in 31 hours of play - from scratch - he has gotten over 90 skill.



So what you are saying that he logged in to the game on day 1 - and basically magically knew that his personal goal in this game was to get 90+ archery... so he focused specifically on killing birds, getting feathers, lumberjacking to make all the arrows, and sitting there shooting about 10k arrows into a tree?

Really?

Or... he loaded his consol command and gave himself 100 archery.

What's more believable?

Has to be a troll at this point. Just noticed its another lvl 0 private account spouting absurdities. Even peppering in the bits of inconsistent information like omitting that wooden arrows are 8 wood for 20 no feathers needed. Nice go around, try playing the game you may enjoy it.

[djinnxy]

I agree. If people put as much effort into it as complaining about it they'd be 90 in bow too.

[FadeXF]

Escrito originalmente por Lapinoire:

So I just made a new character, went into my main world's base, picked up some spare bows that I never threw away, made 700 Wooden arrows, and started shooting the tree just outside of my base.

In 10 minutes, I got to level 27 Bows, with just the resources listed above. This is just from shooting a tree, mind you. My bow skill on my main was primarily from shooting hundreds of greydwarves, skeletons, tens of trolls, tons of draugrs, wolves, etc.

Just because you keep dying, or don't focus on one thing doesn't mean other people aren't capable of doing something that you can't.

Learn to play.

Ok - signing off with "learn to play" .... that's hilarious because what you meant was "learn to exploit" - which: my record is very well known: I exploited the ♥♥♥♥ out of porting metals/ore world to world... so I'm not one to talk but in that same breath I would NEVER try to drop that insult bomb like "MAN - you boat your ore/metals back to your base - HaHAHA WHAT A LOSER - LEARN TO PLAY NOOB" - like really man?


Otherwise: I'm done arguing here today on this one. Just because of my own beliefs here with how the system is intended and developed - and people here arguing about it aren't being honest with where they are in the graph... at least the ultra douche bag who pirated the game was honest about it... as was I with how I felt about the portals with relation to the intended design of them.

No WAY are we meant to have 50+ skills heading into Plains... and if we are: this truly does become a "learn to play" issue (right back at you, kid) where you are intended to die at times and when you do: you aren't intended to hold your ill-gotten, illegitimate 90-100 skill points.

People who actually played the game "as intended" hitting creatures and not trees - won't have 90 to 100 scores until like... hour 300... if all they ever hit are mobs.

Anyways - have at it boys.

[djinnxy]

I've got my lame weekly 20 minute show to watch, but.... Dude don't leave sour. I'd rather see you improve your gameplay. Just take your time and you'll have no problem getting over 50 as long as you focus on one weapon type and a bow. If you feel you must rush it like the other guy and cram training then that's fine, but you sure don't have to do that to make it.

[Dante Wallace]

I guess it is there to incentivise players to not die. The difficulty in the game is not the hardest if you craft and upgrade armor and tools before exploring the new boss biome you unlock. Besides, the skills dont really mean that much if you just craft good tools.

[Lapinoire]

Escrito originalmente por FadeXF:

Otherwise: I'm done arguing here today on this one. Just because of my own beliefs here with how the system is intended and developed - and people here arguing about it aren't being honest with where they are in the graph... at least the ultra douche bag who pirated the game was honest about it... as was I with how I felt about the portals with relation to the intended design of them.

No WAY are we meant to have 50+ skills heading into Plains... and if we are: this truly does become a "learn to play" issue (right back at you, kid) where you are intended to die at times and when you do: you aren't intended to hold your ill-gotten, illegitimate 90-100 skill points.

People who actually played the game "as intended" hitting creates and not trees - won't have 90 to 100 scores until like... hour 300... if all they ever hit are mobs.

Anyways - have at it boys.

Guess you missed the part where I said:
- All my arrows were used in killing enemies on my primary character.
- I haven't died since the first hour of play, meaning I haven't lost any skill levels.

The fact that I have not dropped any skill levels, and the fact that I am actively playing through the game with a bow, means that my skill level is about as high as it can be with or without exploits.

At this point, what you're doing is willful ignorance. You can't admit that you're wrong, because you haven't done it yourself. If you played through a solo play using primarily bows, or a single weapon, without dying, you'd definitely be around level 70~80 by the end of the game.

You refuse to read parts of my posts and are just blinded by "WAAAH LEVEL 90 BOW I DON'T HAVE THAT THEREFORE THIS PERSON IS A CHEATER!!!".

I was level 40 Knives before I even got to Black Forest because I wasted a lot of time hitting Eikthyr with a Flint Knife. It's really not that difficult.

You also want a quick "graph" on how many hits(or arrows) it takes to level up Bows?
From level 9>10, it takes roughly 11 arrows, 10>11, another 12. By 20, you've spent roughly 270 arrows.

Each level on bows after 20 takes slightly more than the total amount of arrows the previous level took:
20>21: 41 Arrows
21>22: 45 Arrows
22>23: 49 Arrows
23>24: 54 Arrows
25>26: 59 Arrows
26>27: 65 Arrows
Keep in mind that uncharged shots give less EXP than charged shots(at the cost of less stamina usage, and more arrows consumed)

Before claiming others to be cheaters, exploiters, whatever you want to call it, please actually play the game and understand how it functions. Again, just because someone can do it and you can't does not make them a cheater.

Again, learn to play.

[Actionhanz]

Escrito originalmente por Akita:

I dont see any point on working on skills anymore. Loosing interest fast.

Git gud or bye `?

[Dive Pymander]

This is a survival game. You're not supposed to try to die. You're supposed to try to survive.

Just because you like games where you can keep dying by rushing enemies until you can memorize button mashes to beat them regularly doesn't mean Valheim should be catered to you. If you like games where you have no skill drain then play with the 40k-70k people who are into Ark or 7 Days to Die. If you like games where keeping your character alive is consequential, important and requires strategic thinking then play with the 100k-400k people who play Rust or Valheim. Iron Gate can't really cater to both like the developers at Ark and 7 Days to Die tried to cater to both with their little options for Rust and Valheim like experience. People who like the Rust and Valheim experience don't like games with those options, because it ruins the strategic multiplayer when you know that casual gamers can get all the perks you worked hard towards by nerfing the options without mods or cheats.

[Dive Pymander]

Dear Iron Gate,

If you're listening. Casual gamers that want to nerf the difficulty are a loud minority, and not a market majority. Please look at your numbers, look at Rust's numbers and realize that people like survival games that punishes in-game death. Adding options for permadeath, skill drain and equipment loss will probably ruin your game and definitely kill it's current legendary gamer's game status. It's not a hard game, and trying to make the game more accessible with difficulty options will fundamentally change distinctive key mechanics of your game which appeal to steam culture. People won't want to put in the energy working through a server on hard difficulty if they know people can just move through an entire server in half the sittings on easy difficulty. It's hard to describe, but it kind of kills the allure of grinding if you have multiple difficulty options. It's why people prefer Rust to Ark. Don't ruin what makes this game unique and special to cater towards people who aren't invested enough to rework up a new strategy besides rushing head long into hopeless terrain/biomes/battles, rebuilding a 5% skill drain, or creating new equipment to find their lost equipment.

[cAipi_rInHa]

how do skills matter anyways, I never check them. No matter if you are maxed or at 0 you can do everything with everything ^

[Lapinoire]

Escrito originalmente por cAipi_rInHa:

how do skills matter anyways, I never check them. No matter if you are maxed or at 0 you can do everything with everything ^

For melee weapons, it affects damage.
For jumping, jump height is increased.
Running, speed increase and stamina drain decrease
Bows, faster charging speed.
etc.

You can do anything and everything, but focusing on one or two things first is just straight up better.

[Tachyon]

So, use a mod to disable XP loss then, if it's a gamebreaker for you.

[Nex]

Everything takes so long in this game. I played 120 hours now. I make potions to regen stamina and health. Have all the best foods I can make. I grind my armour up to the highest I can build. I started noticing this is how you have to play, if you play mostly solo. Probably their intention. That said, I die a lot less. I can't help but think the game is full of cheap deaths. Regaining lost skills is okay at first, but down the line it just starts to anger you. Especially when you get hit with so many bad status effects. gangs of tough enemies will comes out of no where. You feel like you had those wolves with all your best gear and suddenly you didn't, because it is hard to measure their attack speed or out run them. I can beat 3, but 5 is 50-50 as far as I can remember.

I was building my base. Falls off the ledge because I got tunnel vision and didn't max my food, which another thing is burning through food while building complex crap..

I can go on and on about the stat drain. I feel like the people commenting against you play with friends or are new. in the high levels you will get annoyed when you lose a days work, especially on run. My trick to avoiding disappointment was to just write skills of completely. Like, I do not care about their against at all anymore. Now I enjoy the game a lot more.

I'd rather the grind be 10x for stats than lose them. At least I'd feel like there was a point to the grind. It is a bad design decision in my opinion. Can't says I seen a game punish you this bad for dying later in the game and it isn't like these devs are all so hardcore. It is just dumb. It doesn't fit the game in my opinion. It's the only mechanic I really hate in this game. Everything else is good or good enough for me. The stat drain, though. I could care less about.

My friend did the max 100 stat command on a new character as a test. Told me he dropped all hist stats to 72 in three deaths. Enjoy that one. I wish he told me what it was in one death, but probably like 12 points from 100. what a joke. Not going to go hit trees when I am trying to build a big castle at this point and am losing interest in the game for off guard deaths. If I am honest, a lot of my turmoil in this game was the stat drain. Ruined the experience for me and was the main reason I think I inevitably started losing interest in this game. It feel broken to me. That's how I feel about it, so oh well, I guess. Cheating won't help me, because once I cheat in a game I quit. f the stat system..

[Naewyng]

Escrito originalmente por Dive Pymander:

Dear Iron Gate,

If you're listening. Casual gamers that want to nerf the difficulty are a loud minority, and not a market majority. Please look at your numbers, look at Rust's numbers and realize that people like survival games that punishes in-game death. Adding options for permadeath, skill drain and equipment loss will probably ruin your game and definitely kill it's current legendary gamer's game status. It's not a hard game, and trying to make the game more accessible with difficulty options will fundamentally change distinctive key mechanics of your game which appeal to steam culture. People won't want to put in the energy working through a server on hard difficulty if they know people can just move through an entire server in half the sittings on easy difficulty. It's hard to describe, but it kind of kills the allure of grinding if you have multiple difficulty options. It's why people prefer Rust to Ark. Don't ruin what makes this game unique and special to cater towards people who aren't invested enough to rework up a new strategy besides rushing head long into hopeless terrain/biomes/battles, rebuilding a 5% skill drain, or creating new equipment to find their lost equipment.

It's weird how Dark Souls, a game known for being very hard, manages to be hard without going full ret@rd on death punishment...
Could it be that it's just badly made/not balanced in this game? :O