do phalanxs work at all?

[the orgazoid]

For me, at least 80% of the time they are failing, I've just experienced an AI general obliterate 5 units of pikemen(all head on) and scoop up 828 kills. I could always remember pikes being OP in the original Rome but maybe Im wrong

[The Silver Santana]

You're not wrong, but pikes are finicky. In general, if the unit is sitting still they will nearly instantly kill any cav or chariots that touch them. But if the unit pushes forward, they start using side-swords as soon as the enemy pushes through the pikes and engages enough of the total unit in melee. Super heavy cav can sometimes just run through the pike wall and get into melee and then kill them, as such.

Now, there are some glitches I don't remember, such as nubian spearmen not having a walk animation or something and surging into my pikes like an unstoppable yellow-flagged tide, but overall it works like it always did.

The thing you can do to help ensure that units use their pikes is to A. Not attack B. Keep guard on (I think that helps) and c. Keep phalanx units compact so that they have multiple ranks and less penetration.

You can actually push through enemy pike units manually by clicking run behind them, which causes your units to run through the pikes and trigger melee. The AI does not do this, which is why pikes are great against the AI but heavy infantry is more reliable as a player.

And as an aside, if you right click an enemy unit your troops briefly switch back to pikes-so if you are being decimated by a general, right click every second or so and eventually a pike will spring into existence pointing at him and instantly kill him.

[Jambie Lionheart]

You gotta remember the stat boosts too if you're playing on a higher difficulty level. It has a significant effect on combat balances. Forget using pikes ina city though. They used to somewhat work, but there's no way I can see them working with current city pathing. Though I've not tried it, not entirely sure I want to. Sounds like a bad day to me >: ]

[C_Fear]

When using the Remastered stat change I find that phalanxes are borderline overpowered against early Roman units.
No that's not me complaining, I like it.
The hoplites are so much more powerful that it's difficult to civilise them from the rear with Equites, which was easy in the original, different tactics are needed.
Phalangites from Macedon, they're not as boosted but the pikes sure are lethal.

As for using them, forcing them to use their pikes instead of their little swords is a different story. I find that slapping guard mode on and using line-up commands (stretching the line or compressing it) helps force the pikes out, obviously with phalanx mode turned on.

[Ramsay Bolton]

Originally posted by C_Fear:

When using the Remastered stat change I find that phalanxes are borderline overpowered against early Roman units.
No that's not me complaining, I like it.
The hoplites are so much more powerful that it's difficult to civilise them from the rear with Equites, which was easy in the original, different tactics are needed.
Phalangites from Macedon, they're not as boosted but the pikes sure are lethal.

As for using them, forcing them to use their pikes instead of their little swords is a different story. I find that slapping guard mode on and using line-up commands (stretching the line or compressing it) helps force the pikes out, obviously with phalanx mode turned on.

precisely, hence why asculum and lake trasimene are very difficult using the remastered stats......much better to turn it off for historical battles.

But back to the topic - phalanxes are extremely op, but you must NOT stretch them - they need to stay "deep" - you can stretch them though, but stack like 3 units on top of each other to make them effective - they are nigh impregnable and 500 royal phalangists like that (in a corner) can destroy virtually infinite amount of enemy troops, provided that they are not elephants, berserkers or missile units.

Remember, NEVER use "attack" with your phalanxes, merely "move" them towards the enemy (using e.g arrows or positioning) - and stop once they get close.

[munsterhouse]

Just watched a rebel unit of militia Hops tear through a unit of my Pikes with ease...I was slightly shocked to be honest.

[Ramsay Bolton]

Originally posted by munsterhouse:

Just watched a rebel unit of militia Hops tear through a unit of my Pikes with ease...I was slightly shocked to be honest.

did you overstretch them or did you click "attack" on those hoplites? the strength in phalanxes is actually in defence, and hoplites would have much harder time to break through then:)

[Jambie Lionheart]

Originally posted by C_Fear:

When using the Remastered stat change I find that phalanxes are borderline overpowered against early Roman units.
No that's not me complaining, I like it.
The hoplites are so much more powerful that it's difficult to civilise them from the rear with Equites, which was easy in the original, different tactics are needed.
Phalangites from Macedon, they're not as boosted but the pikes sure are lethal.

As for using them, forcing them to use their pikes instead of their little swords is a different story. I find that slapping guard mode on and using line-up commands (stretching the line or compressing it) helps force the pikes out, obviously with phalanx mode turned on.

Indeed, after I posted I had a fight with Thrace, full of pikes. They fair much better against preatorians now than they did before. It used to be that they'd melt away, but not so anymore >: ] I like it.

Eary roman units are kinda lackluster though, I don't think it's that the other faction units are op in comparison. Takes six principe's to beat a single spartan hoplite unit. and that's from all exposed flanks too. (in original version >: ]

[FatalError]

phalanxes get obliterated in autobattles. Was just playing julii defending vs greek full stack of hops, armored hops, with like 3 exp each + support units vs my vanilla hastati. Greeks got crushed so hard it wasn't even funny, I only lost like 150 dudes.

Using them is annoying too, was playing alexander and during a siege i had one phalangist fully deployed and gave them a simple move order like 50 meters foward, those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ left their phalanx for no reason and got charged by the generals cav, almost died.

Sometimes the phalanx will form a ball and glitch tf out for like 10-20 seconds before reforming. This happens especially when you have phalanx disabled and then reenable it.

On the plus side, against pure melee units phalanx crushes ai like no other. All you have to do is match their lines with your lines, move foward slowly and place them just in front of their lines so they can literally touch. Don't even attack order because that will just ♥♥♥♥ up the formation. When you are close enough the AI will eventually just run into your phalanx and die. But ranged units with lots of ammo hard counter phalanx, like immortals in Alexander with their stupid bows, which is annoying af and seems unrealistic, but oh well.

So yeah, phalanx is garbage in autobattle, in manual it is great except that it's mediocre in sieges (pathfinding glitches), has random glitches with the phalanx formation, it's slow, and it's weak to ranged units.

The glitches are the most annoying thing. No other unit can ♥♥♥♥ up like that. You have to constantly babysit them and fight battles manually, so a greek campaign would probably take 50% longer lol.

PS: If you're having trouble getting your phalanxes to justworkTM, what I do is I disable phalanx, set them to run(hoplites have good stamina so they won't even tire), form lines parallel to their lines, at a safe distance so they can't get charged before deploying, but still as close as possible, then deploy phalanx. Don't try to turn and attack with phalanx, they will just ♥♥♥♥ up. When you itch them foward it's more reliable to pause and give move orders just straight foward, but make sure to check that they are not turning. If you draw lines with rightclick+drag, they will often slightly reform and partially drop the phalanx, leading to glitches and rage. Oh and always make sure defend mode is on, since chasing also breaks phalanx.

[the orgazoid]

Originally posted by Ramsay Bolton:

Originally posted by munsterhouse:

Just watched a rebel unit of militia Hops tear through a unit of my Pikes with ease...I was slightly shocked to be honest.

did you overstretch them or did you click "attack" on those hoplites? the strength in phalanxes is actually in defence, and hoplites would have much harder time to break through then:)

i always click the attack order and wonder what happens. Good to know

[Gorezin]

I remember 17 years ago that cav would be crushed by hoplites, now the opposite is happening. I ALT+F4 my Greek campaign when the Scipii general crushed my hoplites without a loss in the siege of Syracuse....The rest of his army being routed as expected in the other streets.
In my Julii campaign i'm seeing greek stacks coming my way with level 3 spartans in them, it's gonna sting a bit. (The greeks are number 3 in ranking, in my campaign and Carthage lost to Numidia lolz). Hopefully i have legionnary cav and the greeks have no FMs in most of their armies.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron Raptor]

Pikes were great, including in MP where they are tested the most. All this talk about them messing up must be from city battles where they sometimes got trouble keeping their pikes down when marching through streets. But I think that might always have been the case.

Originally posted by C_Fear:

When using the Remastered stat change I find that phalanxes are borderline overpowered against early Roman units.
No that's not me complaining, I like it.
The hoplites are so much more powerful that it's difficult to civilise them from the rear with Equites, which was easy in the original, different tactics are needed.
Phalangites from Macedon, they're not as boosted but the pikes sure are lethal.

As for using them, forcing them to use their pikes instead of their little swords is a different story. I find that slapping guard mode on and using line-up commands (stretching the line or compressing it) helps force the pikes out, obviously with phalanx mode turned on.

Their stats are exactly the same as in the original.

[Shaman King]

Why dont just camp 1 or 2 unit of pikes in every street so if they go at you just dont move. Atleast in origo i got many kills like this. Block every street but not inside street. Close to town center and create an arc of two units is even better the more arc you have the more kills. I coukd get full army wipes with basc hoplites in the city i have screenshots of it

[the orgazoid]

Originally posted by Zakys:

Why dont just camp 1 or 2 unit of pikes in every street so if they go at you just dont move. Atleast in origo i got many kills like this. Block every street but not inside street. Close to town center and create.and arc of two units is even better the more arc you have the more kills. I coukd get full army wipes with basc hoplites in the city i have screenshots of it

this is true, city centres and plazas are the spot

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron Raptor]

Originally posted by the spice man:

Originally posted by Zakys:

Why dont just camp 1 or 2 unit of pikes in every street so if they go at you just dont move. Atleast in origo i got many kills like this. Block every street but not inside street. Close to town center and create.and arc of two units is even better the more arc you have the more kills. I coukd get full army wipes with basc hoplites in the city i have screenshots of it

this is true, city centres and plazas are the spot

Yep, you want to be close to the plaza anyway in case they get a sudden panic. In many towns it is even possible to block the streets while still having a few men inside to plaza to keep them unbreakable. And in some the plaza has a corner you can comfortably back up against.

[Ramsay Bolton]

Originally posted by the spice man:

Originally posted by Zakys:

Why dont just camp 1 or 2 unit of pikes in every street so if they go at you just dont move. Atleast in origo i got many kills like this. Block every street but not inside street. Close to town center and create.and arc of two units is even better the more arc you have the more kills. I coukd get full army wipes with basc hoplites in the city i have screenshots of it

this is true, city centres and plazas are the spot

I would disagree in here - it's not a problem to stay inside a street, but that you click "attack" on the enemy....if you get close to an enemy, just stop and form your phalanx - hoplites are obviously worse, but phalanxes are extrelemy effective provided that they are stationary.

If you need to attack someone - use other troops to trigger the enemy (attack then pull back) - preferably cavalry, and let them crash onto your own phalanxes and hoplite walls.