Delay Marian Reforms

[Watchdog]

I am looking for a way to delay the marian reforms, ideally to a specific date/turn number. Does anyone know how I could go about this?

[Get Donked On]

Originally posted by Tauntaun One:

I am looking for a way to delay the marian reforms, ideally to a specific date/turn number. Does anyone know how I could go about this?

yes crank up your taxes on your oversized city take all units out let it rebel then exterminate and then hope the other romans dont build an imperial palace

[Watchdog]

See it's the AI romans that are the problem, the reforms happened before I had Principes in my armies.

[Darviathar]

I believe an Imperial Palace has to be built outside of Italy, but that may have been one of the mods I played back in the day. Thessalonica and Pergamon tend to be very big, and it is easy to trigger this without meaning to, even if you are trying to keep Tarentum and Croton small.

[Watchdog]

Based on what I've been able to find after some searching, it looks like the trigger is related to an Imperial Palace being built in a region with the "Italy" hidden resource (though I can't confirm 100% this is the trigger).

I have tried editing descr_regions to exclude the "Italy" hidden resource from all regions except my capitol, so I can trigger the reforms when I choose, however I don't think my changes are taking effect. I deleted map.rwm to try and get it to regenerate with my changes, but I haven't seen a new map.rwm even after starting and saving multiple campaign games.

[Gilmaris]

Originally posted by Darviathar:

I believe an Imperial Palace has to be built outside of Italy, but that may have been one of the mods I played back in the day. Thessalonica and Pergamon tend to be very big, and it is easy to trigger this without meaning to, even if you are trying to keep Tarentum and Croton small.

That's backwards: the Marian reforms trigger as soon as an Italian city builds the imperial palace. A workaround to this would be to edit the cities so that some remote city alone had the hidden value "Italian". And that sort of editing is the only way to delay the Marian reforms, so you probably had a mod of some sort, yes (unless you edited it yourself).

However, personally, what I found to be the best solution, was to prevent pre-Marian units from becoming obsolete - that way, I didn't have to plan for or worry about triggering the reforms. The way you do this is quite simple: in the export_descr_buildings file, each pre-Marian unit has the "and not marian_reforms" value. If you remove these, you can keep recruiting and retraining them even after the reforms hit.

A third option is to make infantry units available earlier, in terms of city tiers. There are two ways you can do this: either make all barracks buildings available one city tier earlier, or make all infantry units available one barracks tier earlier. Or both, if you are so inclined. It's in the same file as above, and simply a matter of cut/copy and paste.

[Watchdog]

Thanks for the advice Gilmaris, these are also viable solutions.

I have a temporary solution that I'm not thrilled with but at the very least I am going to use as a stopgap for figuring out something more robust. Basically I was able to confirm the trigger is an Imperial Palace in a region with the "Italy" resource. I tested this by only leaving Brutii cities with the hidden value and eventually I was able to confirm only those cities would trigger the reform.

The reason I wasn't able to get it to work earlier was because I wasn't properly removing the old map.rwm and using the newly generated one. I was able to correct my approach following the guide here.[wiki.twcenter.net]

I am now able to at least control when the reforms happen by only upgrading my capital when I want them to happen, but as this solution feels quite gamey, I am still hoping to find a time/turn based solution. I also may adopt an approach similar to what AdmiralDoucheBag has done with his mod here and make the cities to trigger the reforms on the edges of the empire.

[Inardesco]

You could increase the turns required for building the building, for instance, you could make it 20 turns.

Also make it more expensive.

Even have it require certain locations and/or other buildings as a requirement.

Edit. Already seeing you're using the hidden_resource manner. While this is useful for your current campaign, its not for your next campaign.

You could add a requirement that the one wanting to build it needs to own a specific region, like Athens, Alexandria or whatever you choose.

Personally, locking it behind the requirement of other buildings, so it cant be rushed, seems a better option.

[Captain Custard]

I used to find that reducing the base fertility level of all the regions in Italy in the descr_regions file helps this as it will slow down population growth.

[2GenL]

Reforms happen when you build an imp palace. Don't build that then you wont get the reforms (unless one of the other roman factions build one before you...)

[Watchdog]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Edit. Already seeing you're using the hidden_resource manner. While this is useful for your current campaign, its not for your next campaign.

I assume as long as I repeat my method of setting up to play Brutii, I won't run into any other problems. Unless you mean something else?

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Personally, locking it behind the requirement of other buildings, so it cant be rushed, seems a better option.

This seems like a good idea, do you know how I could go about adding building requirements to build the imperial palace?

Originally posted by _2GenL_:

Reforms happen when you build an imp palace. Don't build that then you wont get the reforms (unless one of the other roman factions build one before you...)

Yes as I mentioned already I am trying to prevent the AI from triggering the reforms until a certain date.

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by Tauntaun One:

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Edit. Already seeing you're using the hidden_resource manner. While this is useful for your current campaign, its not for your next campaign.

I assume as long as I repeat my method of setting up to play Brutii, I won't run into any other problems. Unless you mean something else?

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Personally, locking it behind the requirement of other buildings, so it cant be rushed, seems a better option.

This seems like a good idea, do you know how I could go about adding building requirements to build the imperial palace?

Originally posted by _2GenL_:

Reforms happen when you build an imp palace. Don't build that then you wont get the reforms (unless one of the other roman factions build one before you...)

Yes as I mentioned already I am trying to prevent the AI from triggering the reforms until a certain date.

I'm not at home atm. But I can check how a Medieval 2 mod does this. Will come back again when I am home

[2GenL]

Originally posted by Senpai-kun:

Delay the reforms? Why would you want to do that?

Sometimes it's nice to use the triarii for a bit longer :)

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by Tauntaun One:

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Edit. Already seeing you're using the hidden_resource manner. While this is useful for your current campaign, its not for your next campaign.

I assume as long as I repeat my method of setting up to play Brutii, I won't run into any other problems. Unless you mean something else?

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Personally, locking it behind the requirement of other buildings, so it cant be rushed, seems a better option.

This seems like a good idea, do you know how I could go about adding building requirements to build the imperial palace?

Originally posted by _2GenL_:

Reforms happen when you build an imp palace. Don't build that then you wont get the reforms (unless one of the other roman factions build one before you...)

Yes as I mentioned already I am trying to prevent the AI from triggering the reforms until a certain date.

Ok.

So this is an entry in the EDB for Divide and Conquer mod for Medieval 2.

building meso_barracks
{
convert_to castle_meso_barracks
levels muster_ground muster_ground_ancillary military_camp military_hub
{
muster_ground city requires factions { aztecs, teutonic_order, timurids, khand, } and building_present_min_level hinterland_farms farms
}
material wooden
construction 4
cost 2100
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
muster_ground_ancillary
}
}

If you'd add the and building_present_min_level *barracks/stables/archery range* alongside an increase of the construction 4 to 20 or something with a higher cost.

It should do the trick. But this obviously requires a large campaign to test through.