What's the point in getting protectorate?

[Kref]

I got close to eliminating one faction, and they made suggestion - I return them one of their former provinces, pay them 500 for three turns, and they would become my protectorate.
I've agreed, gave them one of provinces, and after a turn or two they've just broked agreement (probably romans encouraged them to do so) and continued the war against me.
So, what's the use in "become protectorate" diplomatic option?

[Skatan]

Well, the theoretical point is to have a demilitarized ally who pay you tribute every turn in return for your protection. In practice I've never got it to work for myself in classic RTW other than BEING a protectorate, which works quite well, but never to have.

In remastered settings the AI is supposed to offer to become protectorates in order to save themselves from utter destruction. I've seen it happen a couple of times, but it's still too little and too late. The only times I've seen it is when the enemy is down to one city and they basically always ask to get back all of their lost settelements, which is a ♥♥♥♥ deal for the player faction and thus pointless.

in VH campaign map there should be a theoretical gain to have a protectorate between you and another faction since as soon as you share borders with a faction they will always declare war and having that faction in between could potentially delay that for a while. In practice, it doesn't work and is thus pointless and you're just asking for a stab in the back.

I love the idea, but the execution is still to wonky to work so I prefer to annihilate instead. Perhaps playing a more "RP" playthrough I'd consider to try it, but only on Medium campaign AI though, anything higher will make the AI break any deals with the player faction anyways, even when it's detrimental to themselves.

[Cpl. Burden R 3294]

I concur. They always seem to either immediately, or soon after (2, 3 turns) not only break their protectorate status but go immediately back to war.

There really ought to be some kind of lock on it. Not a permanent one but, something along the lines of Crusader Kings II, EUIV etc. that they can't just break off from being a protectorate as easily as they do. Maybe a civil disorder mechanic (so, if the settlement enters disorder, or the ruler dies or something, then it can change, to simulate regime change)

Just spitballing, as it were, but something to prevent these 1 or 2 turn heel-face-turns that render the whole system pointless.

[Muerte]

I have Dacia as protectorate for 20+ turns now in my Julii campaign. They also accepted without getting land back but yeah the Britons and Spanish tried to get it all back waay too late. It's honestly not worth it and a waste of time imho especially with long victory conditions...

[FireAgain]

If they propose it, they will almost always ask for land back. If you propose it, you can basically buy them out for money if you are rich enough. It's only really useful for mopping up annoying factions in the corners with trash-tier settlements like Numidia, Scythia and Brittania - settlements that are hard to maintain with public order thanks to the capital penalty. All of your protectorates count towards the 50 settlement goal so even if they do ask for settlements it doesn't matter as long as they don't break it.

I find that when I am at a massive advantage they won't break it, but in the mid-game if I try to protectorate my first few rivals they will betray me and force me to reconquer them.

Asking for protection from a superior enemy (Roman family, Egypt, etc) on the other hand is crazy-useful. Weighed very highly on the negotiation screen, easy to break out of when you feel like it, instant peace and allied status with them and minimal impact on your economy while you murderize your other enemies first. The only real danger is that you accidentally win the game for them when you add your settlement count to theirs, otherwise its a really powerful move when you're struggling and lets you park entire armies next to their biggest settlements with no resistance before your betrayal.

[Winged Hussar]

There is none really because the AI is trash and will always attack you no matter how many gifts you give. I treat that like a ceasefire while collecting their taxes while it lasts.

[Organ Donor]

In my VH Julii campaign, I had Germany and Spain offer to become my protectorates. Germany was an ally and Spain was either neutral or ally when they each made this proposal. No money or land were involved. Germany had only 1 settlement (Thermiskyra) and Spain had only 2 (Asturica & Scallabis) settlements when they asked. It seems that this decision was to get my protection against being annihilated by Dacia and Gaul respectively.

Germany was annihilated because their remaining faction was way too far for me to protect. and so was Spain's but they somehow managed to survive, probably because Gaul was focusing on me a lot. However, Spain came back a while later to end the Protectorate status (to which I countered with "Protectorate Ultimatum" when means "remain my protectorate or I will attack you", they chose war.

Funny thing is, IIRC, I was not at war with the factions threatening Germany and Spain with annihilation, and they did not ask me to attack those factions when they became my protectorates.

Also I gained no denarii when they became my protectorates because they were already bankrupt.
This game needs to tune enemy AI to disband units when they have way too many just getting paid to sit around.

[revson94]

Originally posted by FireAgain:

If they propose it, they will almost always ask for land back. If you propose it, you can basically buy them out for money if you are rich enough. It's only really useful for mopping up annoying factions in the corners with trash-tier settlements like Numidia, Scythia and Brittania - settlements that are hard to maintain with public order thanks to the capital penalty. All of your protectorates count towards the 50 settlement goal so even if they do ask for settlements it doesn't matter as long as they don't break it.

I find that when I am at a massive advantage they won't break it, but in the mid-game if I try to protectorate my first few rivals they will betray me and force me to reconquer them.

Asking for protection from a superior enemy (Roman family, Egypt, etc) on the other hand is crazy-useful. Weighed very highly on the negotiation screen, easy to break out of when you feel like it, instant peace and allied status with them and minimal impact on your economy while you murderize your other enemies first. The only real danger is that you accidentally win the game for them when you add your settlement count to theirs, otherwise its a really powerful move when you're struggling and lets you park entire armies next to their biggest settlements with no resistance before your betrayal.

So...
I have discovered the "settlements counting towards the total" thing with Protectorates, and I find it very useful in getting to 50. However, I have not observed all of your protectorates settlements counting. From what I have been able to figure out, it seems like all of their Large and Huge Cities, plus their capital (if it is not a large or huge city) count. But there are a couple of exceptions.
For Example: Britannia can only get as high as minor cities. So, all of their minor cities count (and their capital if it is not a minor city).

But I have had trouble once or twice with this formula not quite working out.
Just to test my theory, I used a cheat on a campaign I had already completed to force diplomacy with everyone. Egypt, Thrace, and Britannia, followed these rules, but Armenia and Parthia did not.
Armenia had something like 2 Large Cities, and 5 minor cities (one of which was their capital), but they contributed a total of 5 settlements to my total. I then cheated again to force them to give me all of their cities except their capital, and I still got 2 settlements from them to contribute to my total (I assume their capital and one of their towns). I then started giving them their cities back a few at a time, and again, some of them counted, others did not.

Parthia, on the other hand, only had one city total when I made them a protectorate (their capital which was a minor city) and it did not count towards my total. I then gave them a Large City, and it did count towards my total.

There were no other surviving factions to continue testing my Theory, so I cannot explain this inconsistency with the formula I have observed for every other faction in the game.

Bottom line...
for most of the factions, any Large or Huge city (and their capital if it is not a large or huge city) counts towards your total number of controlled regions. If a faction cannot build Large or Huge Cities (i.e. Britannia), then their largest possible settlements count towards your total number of controlled regions.


If you have evidence of this theory not being true, or if you can explain the inconsistencies I had with Armenia and Parthia, please let me know!!!

[attiladafun]

I, too, had an alliance with Spain who became my protectorate for money. 20 turns in and they haven't betrayed me yet, they have 5 cities and a lot of huge armies that don't move. Macedon offered to become my protectorate if I attacked Dacia. I got to it around 5 turns later, about 10 turns in, Macedon was no longer my protectorate as they were being attacked by my fellow roman factions.

[attiladafun]

Spain was bankrupt and not moving their armies at all so I bribed some gone and they started getting an income again and moved the ones left back to their cities. Can factions stunlock themselves by going bankrupt with armies? Carthage had a bunch just standing around doing nothing as well.

[Organ Donor]

Originally posted by BigYeezy:

Spain was bankrupt and not moving their armies at all so I bribed some gone and they started getting an income again and moved the ones left back to their cities. Can factions stunlock themselves by going bankrupt with armies? Carthage had a bunch just standing around doing nothing as well.

They absolutely can. I've see it many times. There needs to be an algorithm for factions to disband their units whenever required.