I don't understand how to progress in this game.

[Bot Roh]

I seem to be just completely stuck on the first 2-3 levels. It's always a mix of
a) Explore levels 1 and 2 thoroughly, get hp chipped down by gun enemies in tight corridors maybe make it to level 3 and die cause I've ended up with garbage wands

b) Beeline through the levels, fail anyway due to equally garbage wands.

There's lots of people saying "get spark trigger and explosives" on the forums but that stuff barely seems to spawn for me even with mods off. I'll occasionally get 6 of the triggers on one wand and it's useless without anything to set off.

Even then what will and won't spawn seems completely arbitrary, bombs and tnt don't seem to stack with the trigger projectiles and they're definitely not on a shuffle wand. I have no idea if this is normal behaviour or not.

Health upgrades just don't seem to spawn at any decent rate either, I know this cause I have a mod on that highlights them and I'm lucky if there's even 1 on a level.

Does anyone have any tips that might make this more bearable, I'm getting real close to just retiring this game cause I resent the idea that I feel like the only way to enjoy it is to go to a wiki.

[Bullwark]

I started with this game today. I have the similar problems like you.
On certain levels I'm thorough. On others very quick --> I have no chance on bee levels so I try to run to the portal as quickly as possible. Which also ends up in disaster.
Normally I get to the second level. Very rarely I make it to about 570m.

Health upgrads spawned a lot for me. But on levels with gunners it just gets drained so quickly, like I don't even have around 175hp...in about 3sec I was dead once with almost 200hp. Everything just shot me. I also had a shield and extra boost time...

I don't know enough about different enemies, potions, levels, spells, etc.. which hinders my progess. Also I don't always hit my enemies properly. And my movement sucks.
Therefore I cast the spell "gitgud" for both of us.

It's training. It will get better with time. I'm a bit overwhelmed by everything new. How things react to each other, etc...

There's a practice mode which helped me to learn and understand what's coming at me.
Try that for a fair amount of time.
Don't think about beating this game. Have fun experimenting. This way your patience and skill will increase slowly over time.

[Morphic]

I can, usually, get to Area 5-6 with whatever I find. However, I haven't actually "beaten" the game and only have ~100 hours so take what I say with a grain of salt.

IMO, you have a good idea to explore area 1 and 2 as much as you can. It's important to find as many Wands/Chest/Hearts as you can safely since area 1 and 2 has weak/tame enemies. Area 2, Coal Pits does ramp up due to flying enemies and lots of shotgunners.

If you don't know this already, there are "extra" areas off to the left. In Area 1 it is the "Collapsed Mines" and in Area 2 it is "Fungal Caves". These are more dangerous (especially Fungal Caves!) but typically have better/more Wands. So they are worth popping in and trying to grab a Wand and running if they are too tough.

When it comes to Wands, IMO, it depends on what spells you have to play with. Generally speaking your second starter wand(the redish one that usually has Bomb/Crystal/Missile) Casts/Recharges very fast but has crap Mana Regen. Slotting your starter spell into it can be of great help as it, usually, makes a Spark Bolt fire very fast and the DPS can burst down one or two enemies. Otherwise, pay attention to Cast Time and Recharge Time the most, followed by Mana Regen and Max Mana. E.g. a Wand with high Regen and low Recharge is usually perfect for the "weak" Spells like Spark/Bounce Bolt or Bubble Spark. Whereas something with high Recharge time can be functional as a "nuke" orientated wand by slotting your limited/dangerous spells.

Don't be afraid of Shuffle Wands. Sometimes they have great stats, take out any stuff that might be dangerous if not triggered properly. Like say you have Spark Bolt Trigger -> Brimstone Explosion, nice little combo but if you end up casting Brimstone first you'll blast yourself. So you'll want to take out Brimstone and slot something that can't hurt you instead.

Hearts can make a big difference, but ultimately, later enemies are just going to 1-shot you or create a situation where you die anyway. E.g. an enemy's spell may do 30+ dmg but stun you... letting 5 other enemies blast you or hit you; making you take 100+ dmg from them all. It's more important to have Immunities or avoid being hit altogether.(via skill or spells)

I mean, there's a lot of general advice that can improve your survivability. What helped the most for me was learning that most times I just have to make due with what I got. Even low damage stuff can be effective if you get a decent Wand or spell combo running. Spark Bolt with Trigger is probably one of the best spells in the game since it'll let you use dangerous stuff easier. E.g. Giga Saw Disc is incredibly deadly both to yourself and enemies. Use Spark Bolt Trigger -> Giga Disc. The spark bolt should give you enough time to find cover or gtfo out of the Disc's path. Another easy combo is Bounce Bolt -> Fire/Gunpowder Arc. It can be deadly to you in small spaces but can be quite effective against enemies.

TLDR: It's a long and hard road. You just gotta experiment some more and try to make do with whatever you can find. Sometimes just slapping random crap in a Wand can lead you to finding decent spell comboes or make "crap" spells useful. Also, sprinkling things like Berserkium on yourself before a fight can make a big difference. I still have moments where I think/feel like you do... and when that happens I just quit the game and play something else. Generally, I'll do 2-4 runs and if I start feeling like I'm not having fun or I didn't get a single thing I wanted... I just quit and come back later.

[saracanite]

I have 700 hours in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game, and only now am I starting to understand what makes a winning run.

So far I have 482 deaths and 10 wins, and nearly 6 of those wins have come recently.

Yes, the cycle of death and constant effort being but into what can fall apart in seconds can be really discouraging to plenty of people, it just takes willpower and patience to continue on and figure out better combinations and things of the such.

This game being RNG based is a part of the long and hard process of getting through the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you encounter.

I was even more discouraged by how started out on launch, of which there were ♥♥♥♥ tons of problems that never got ironed out yet until now, and even to me, the game still feels the same as it had been before to me.

I've never played a game that made me want to die as much as this game has, but I keep coming back.

[Bot Roh]

Originally posted by Morphic:

IMO, you have a good idea to explore area 1 and 2 as much as you can. It's important to find as many Wands/Chest/Hearts as you can safely since area 1 and 2 has weak/tame enemies. Area 2, Coal Pits does ramp up due to flying enemies and lots of shotgunners.

The thing is they're not tame. They're actually all pretty tanky if you start with spark and the terrain will happily let them ♥♥♥♥ you if you're not careful. I feel like my area 1/2 performance has always come down to whether I get one of the few good spells in that area (magic missile or a better starter etc) pretty much out of the gate.

Originally posted by Morphic:

If you don't know this already, there are "extra" areas off to the left. In Area 1 it is the "Collapsed Mines" and in Area 2 it is "Fungal Caves". These are more dangerous (especially Fungal Caves!) but typically have better/more Wands. So they are worth popping in and trying to grab a Wand and running if they are too tough.

Yeah I found these, the area 1 one seems pretty much the same as the rest of area 1 though and the fungal caves seem entirely dependent on whether I've lucked into a mega death wand or not. At which point I don't really need the better wands.

Originally posted by Morphic:

It's more important to have Immunities or avoid being hit altogether.(via skill or spells)

Again this is a case of what can I actually do beyond grind gold and hope the RNG doesn't screw me? The immunities are amazing and are all basically mandatory picks which is a problem in and of itself, but just as often I'll reroll and get stuff that is either useless or actively a death sentence.

Originally posted by Morphic:

I mean, there's a lot of general advice that can improve your survivability. What helped the most for me was learning that most times I just have to make due with what I got. Even low damage stuff can be effective if you get a decent Wand or spell combo running. Spark Bolt with Trigger is probably one of the best spells in the game since it'll let you use dangerous stuff easier. E.g. Giga Saw Disc is incredibly deadly both to yourself and enemies. Use Spark Bolt Trigger -> Giga Disc. The spark bolt should give you enough time to find cover or gtfo out of the Disc's path. Another easy combo is Bounce Bolt -> Fire/Gunpowder Arc. It can be deadly to you in small spaces but can be quite effective against enemies.

It feels much less likely for me to get a combo like that though and much more likely that I'll have a bunch of crap short range projectiles and a magic missile or worse, just a bunch of stuff that can't be launched at the same time without detonating each other point blank. If the game actually gave you useful combos that would be fine but I've basically had to install the modded spellpacks just to reliably get half useful stuff(and that all comes with its own problems).

[Bot Roh]

Originally posted by Saracanite Velk.ca:

I have 700 hours in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game, and only now am I starting to understand what makes a winning run.

So far I have 482 deaths and 10 wins, and nearly 6 of those wins have come recently.

That's actually reads discouraging to me cause after 700 hours you would expect even a monkey to bash out a few wins right? No offense, I'm sure you've developed skills in the game that have helped but at the same time the sheer amount of attempts to wins kinda implies that even if you're decent at the game it doesn't matter, it just comes down to hammering against RNG.

[saracanite]

Originally posted by Bot Roh:

That's actually reads discouraging to me cause after 700 hours you would expect even a monkey to bash out a few wins right? -sheer amount of attempts to wins kinda implies that even if you're decent at the game it doesn't matter, it just comes down to hammering against RNG.

Funny thing is, impatience and lust for power killed nearly every-single-one of my End-game runs.

RNG is good chunk of the equation, but not really everything, it just depends on how you play and what you do to determine the fate of your run.

Will you die trying to explore, or will you end it now and win?

Knowing balance can be the difference of eating ♥♥♥♥ and getting killed, or making it through the mountain, and being able to become powerful without death.
(But no matter what, you will always die, one way or another.)

[ThatGuyCDude]

You said you were playing with mods? Try the one that makes you respawn at a reroll ankh every time you die. It makes the game a lot more enjoyable.

The spells that show up are also dependent on the orbs you have located. Exploring with a mod like the respawn one and finding orbs will increase your spell pool, which could help you on future runs if/when you turn the mods off.

The game is extremely hard and I'm kinda in the same boat as you, debating if it should just be shelved. When playing modless, Biome 4 seems to be my limit unless I find something fun/broken with acid spells, then I can get down to 5.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by Bot Roh:

The thing is they're not tame. They're actually all pretty tanky if you start with spark and the terrain will happily let them ♥♥♥♥ you if you're not careful. I feel like my area 1/2 performance has always come down to whether I get one of the few good spells in that area (magic missile or a better starter etc) pretty much out of the gate.

Well, compared to some of the nonsense in later areas...

As far as "tanky" goes, only the slime balls, fire mages, frogs and shotgunners are the ones to worry about. The rest of the enemies you can easily kite or die in 1-4 Spark Bolts. Provided you actually hit them, some can be surprisingly evasive. Also, if you really need extra damage be sure to kick corpses and bathe in blood. While the bloody effect is up, your chance for critical hits is higher.

Personally, the only spell I actually think sucks as a starter is Firebolt. Crystal is great as a "mine", Bomb is great for digging and will pretty much 1-shot everything in Area 1/2 but is tricky to use.

Originally posted by Bot Roh:

Yeah I found these, the area 1 one seems pretty much the same as the rest of area 1 though and the fungal caves seem entirely dependent on whether I've lucked into a mega death wand or not. At which point I don't really need the better wands.

True but even "crap" wands in Fungal Caves can be useful to grab to pull out 1 or 2 of their spells to use elsewhere. Or just have crap spells but good stats that can carry you a bit once you rearrange spells or get some decent ones at the next Holy Mountain.

Originally posted by Bot Roh:

Again this is a case of what can I actually do beyond grind gold and hope the RNG doesn't screw me? The immunities are amazing and are all basically mandatory picks which is a problem in and of itself, but just as often I'll reroll and get stuff that is either useless or actively a death sentence.

Eh, they aren't explicitly mandatory early on but by Area ~5 you want at least 1 kind of immunity or mitigation Perk. Be from Slime, Poison, Fire, Lightning, Explosion... anything really. And if you can't get an immunity then mitigation like personal shield or damage boosters like angry ghost/homunculus helps. I almost never reroll perks unless I have really crappy choices like bleed oil/gas, Levitation Trail, Radars...

Originally posted by Bot Roh:

It feels much less likely for me to get a combo like that though and much more likely that I'll have a bunch of crap short range projectiles and a magic missile or worse, just a bunch of stuff that can't be launched at the same time without detonating each other point blank. If the game actually gave you useful combos that would be fine but I've basically had to install the modded spellpacks just to reliably get half useful stuff(and that all comes with its own problems).

Hey, Magic Missile is one of my favorite spells, it is really good! But yeah, I understand your feelings as I often get very frustrated if I hit area 3 without some sort of combo going.

Though, like I said, there are a bunch of small combos that are not that hard to get running. They may not be super good and able to carry you but they are good enough to get you through areas 1-4. Hollow Egg/Spell with Trigger + any explosive/barrier, Airburst + Fire/Burn Trail(makes flamethrower) Triplicate Bolt + any Homing, even X Scatter + Spark/whatever Bolt can work out.

Most of them are really common spells you will find in Wands from Area 1/2 and their Holy Mountains. Maybe you got used to your Mod benefits? I know that most Spellpack Mods end up screwing with the RNG tables of spells. So while you are likely to find more Spells you are also less likely to find things to combo due to the increase of potential spells.

[EmeraldMegalith]

Well OP, I feel you. 375 hours here, and I feel this game is incredibly unforgiving. It's fun, but sometimes it can also be really mean to you. If you want to delve deeper, know that frustration can be a big part of the experience, even though the game is fantastic overall.

I would recommend that you read a guide on wand crafting, which the game doesn't explain at all. The "spark trigger and explosives" mentioned on the forums doesn't refer to bombs and TNT, but rather static projectiles that explode, such as explosion (there's a spell named that), explosion of brimstone, and a bunch of others. If you actually want to throw bombs and TNTs with triggers, you'll need something to set them off since they don't detonate immediately upon being cast. You'll need the trigger, a multicast, an explosion, and the bomb itself.

I usually pick up the tablet in the mines and throw it at enemies since killing them that way yields double gold. I also dig out the gold dust in the terrain in the coal pits if I can spare the resources. That way, I can build up a reserve to buy the holy mountain items even if I couldn't thoroughly explore a level. As for wands, anything better than plain spark bolts should suffice for levels 2 and 3. Failing that, you can put your starting spark bolt on the bomb wand since it fires much faster, though you'll have to watch your mana since the recharge is really slow. Finally, explore the fungal caverns, it contains a lot of goodies. The risks are higher, but definitely manageable, and I'd rather die there than go further into the game just to be overpowered by mobs because my equipment couldn't keep up.

Health pickups are just luck of the draw. They're nice to have, but definitely aren't required. Picking up orbs of true knowledge will increase your max hp, and these are guaranteed to show up every time. While you'd probably need a guide to track down all of them, just exploring a bit should net you a few. The game will play a special sound effect when you're near one.

[Butcher]

If your wands are garbage then at very least swap spells in 2 starting wands. Bomb wand usually has low spell cooldown, so when you insert cheap spell you get machinegun which can carry you up to jungle. Resist perks are obviously the best, the one that shocks everything around is better than regular electricity protection. Never pick teleportis perk unless you go for sub 15 run, you will end up in lava. Do not rush, get yourself digging wand and dig gold on the first 2 levels. Luminous drill is the best spell in the entire game, don't drop them. If you have strong digging you can try to get to The Gold for easy 250k.

[Perseus]

Originally posted by Bot Roh:

There's lots of people saying "get spark trigger and explosives" on the forums but that stuff barely seems to spawn for me even with mods off. I'll occasionally get 6 of the triggers on one wand and it's useless without anything to set off.

Does anyone have any tips that might make this more bearable, I'm getting real close to just retiring this game cause I resent the idea that I feel like the only way to enjoy it is to go to a wiki.

Spark bolt with trigger + chainsaw/digging bolt(not digging blast) :

Can be used for digging;

Deals pretty good damage;

you can use multicast and add more chainsaws/digging bolts for almost no extra mana cost but way more damage;

you can use horizontal path/linear arc for damage boost costing no mana (remember to put those after the spark bolt);

you can optimize the cast delay to shoot that spell combo extermely fast, dealing even more damage.
Remember : if you put a spell that affects cast delay after the spark bolt, it doesn't actually affect it, which can be used to your advantage.


By optimizing that design, i once made a wand that could deal over 10 000 dps while having a frontal shield on both me and the spark bolt.

Here's another pretty good wand design : long distance cast + luminous drill.

[TheSpecial_K]

I would suggest turning on some more cheat-y mods, and going for some of the secrets. A few sidequests unlock very powerful spells which would not otherwise be available. The greek character & 'orbit' spells especially.

It's not going to make the game easy but it will sure give you a shot at god-tier RNG otherwise unavailable.

Also, get comfortable with experimenting. Some things are pretty counter-intuitive. Luminous beam w/ ping pong path + add mana is a ridiculously strong infinite lightsaber/mining tool. You can easily clear the final boss with just that.

Chainsaws, luminous drill, and add mana are your friends. Prioritize those in the first 2 floors.
If you're strong enough to kill Steve (the lich) break through the holy temple so you can return to edit wants and optimize gains from floors.

If you explore the surface, there are 2 HP upgrades very easily accessible, always. That extra 50 hp is pretty helpful early on.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by TheSpecial_K:

I would suggest turning on some more cheat-y mods...

It's not going to make the game easy but it will sure give you a shot at god-tier RNG otherwise unavailable.

You heard it first folks, using cheats that literally bypass parts of the game is not making the game easy.

[TheSpecial_K]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Originally posted by TheSpecial_K:

I would suggest turning on some more cheat-y mods...

It's not going to make the game easy but it will sure give you a shot at god-tier RNG otherwise unavailable.

You heard it first folks, using cheats that literally bypass parts of the game is not making the game easy.

To make spells available for later runs, then turning them off.

You are not being helpful. You are trollbaiting.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by TheSpecial_K:

Originally posted by Butcher:

You heard it first folks, using cheats that literally bypass parts of the game is not making the game easy.

To make spells available for later runs, then turning them off.

You are not being helpful. You are trollbaiting.

Do you think if you call someone a troll you win an argument? Do you think you are being helpful with your "hurr durr just cheat"? Keep telling yourself that.

I never used a single noita cheat/mod and it is perfectly winnable and fine. I even won sub 20 minutes run in a new game:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2460502621

Stop telling everyone to use ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheat and let them learn to play the game like it was intended.