At what point does a game have so much "secret content"...

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Noita

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Krull

2021. ápr. 7., 4:31

At what point does a game have so much "secret content"...

... that the "secret content" is the actual game and the rest is just an illusion?
I accidentally spoiled the outside world by looking something up at the wiki, and then it just snowballed from there. This game has so much content that less than 10% of players will even see. Do they expect us to use mods to do most of those tasks in the tree pillars? If so, how is that even fun? Just adding god mode and ripping the whole world apart to unlock the rest of the spells?

Edit: Update later in thread: https://steamcommunity.com/app/881100/discussions/0/3169946351433424092/?ctp=3#c3129415856227993405

Legutóbb szerkesztette: Krull; 2021. ápr. 27., 23:54

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Kattints ide a hozzászólásra ugráshoz.

Eredetileg közzétette: Morphic:

Krull eredeti hozzászólása:
The progression achievements are not really indicative of the "secret content" as they are what the players believe from the get go to be "the game". The reason I picked these achievements are cause some spells and perks are locked away by beating certain enemies or doing certain tasks, meaning you certainly would have to complete some, but not the most obscure, of these tasks.

Well the point I was trying to make with using the progression achievements as an indicator was that: If so few players can't even "beat" the game or reach X zone, how can they be expected to explore/find Y and Z? Hence, I believe an "average player" is literally not going to ever discover even a tenth of Noita's content on their own. They will certainly need to go read the wiki, guides, or watch vids just to understand what to do to even get to that content.

With those "All spells/perks" achievements, you are correct and I mostly agree. However, I feel that the "RNG factor" has a little too much influence since there are just so many spells/perks to get. IMO, it's quite possible someone "good" can find all those hidden/conditional ones but just hasn't had X or Y drop yet.

IMO, I think a major disconnect stems from how Noita initially presents itself. As you stated in another post, there isn't really any indication other than "keep going down killing stuff, find spells/wands, experiment with them, grab perks and keep going down. Die -> Repeat." You used a great example with the Tree and Mountain. Whereas other games, such as Kenshi encourage and punish exploration. You'll find a swamp and be met with ninjas or spiders that wreck face, so you run away(or die). A player naturally goes "welp can't do this place until I get stronger" but they know there's more to explore. With Noita, a player never really knows unless it is somewhat explicit or just stumbled into it. Even games like Antichamber or Salt and Sanctuary at least leave hints to point players in the direction of secrets or, at least, confirm that there is a secret present.

TLDR: IMO, Noita presents itself as a "dungeon crawler" that emphasizes a physics engine and spellcrafting system. There is little indication it is some deep, complex, sandbox game exploring epistemology where a single run is intended to take hours. Thus an "average" player is barely going to see 10% of the full game. I'd even go so far as to say "experienced" or "good" players will barely see ~40% of the content. Whereas the sleuthing aficionados or secret savants are the ones that get to experience all Noita has to offer.

P.S. don't get me wrong, I love the general gameplay of Noita and playing with spells/perks. I just think the designers lost sight of the average player and started to make contradicting design decisions.

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Butcher

2021. jún. 18., 5:12

Dynamo33 eredeti hozzászólása:
Butcher eredeti hozzászólása:
He is extremely far off with his hyperbole. To explore right side of the overworld you need a single magic missile cast(another 2 casts to get into the pyramide). To explore left side you can cross the dark cave and 2 shot in the thin area if exit is blocked, use levitatium and just fly over, teleportarium, fill the skull with water or use many other stuff like luminous drill or black holes. Making holy mountain passage is like 2 black hole casts. You can always come back from the bottom without digging throught the Tower or wizard's cove.

So I conclude that he has no idea what is he talking about.
I'm not even going to bother anymore, you will not take real criticism as an answer. Tell me what do you do 90% of a god run? Do you spend it fighting enemies and bosses? NO, you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ spend it digging at rocks and JUMPING. The world may not be barren like it was pre-1.0, but it's still a bunch of just different things you have to walk past to get to your destination a mile away. What about the parallel worlds? You sound like YOU have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue what you're talking about.

Oh, you improving! Watched wiki about parallel worlds. Too bad going into them is literally 2 speed-up black hole casts and if you dig too slow/have no way to tank cursed damage you die. Maybe try playing the game, it is not as bad as you paint in your trolling attempts.

#76

jakinbandw rendelkezik ezzel: Noita

2021. jún. 18., 20:01

Dynamo33 eredeti hozzászólása:
Butcher eredeti hozzászólása:
I'm not even going to bother anymore, you will not take real criticism as an answer. Tell me what do you do 90% of a god run? Do you spend it fighting enemies and bosses? NO, you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ spend it digging at rocks and JUMPING. The world may not be barren like it was pre-1.0, but it's still a bunch of just different things you have to walk past to get to your destination a mile away. What about the parallel worlds? You sound like YOU have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue what you're talking about.

I mean, in my god run I made a nolla teleport/blackhole with distant cast wand and never needed to jump.

Honestly 90% was spent running through dungeons in parallel worlds until the very end when I went to try to get 33 orbs. It took me a long time to get my first ones, but by the third set it took me about 2 hours. That was without marking the locations of over half. The whole run took like 40 hours, most of which was working on building the suns.

#77