Theorycrafting, strategies, etc

[Schmuddel]

I wanted to make a thread discussing how people play the game and their various strategies going in, since it seems to vary wildly from player to player. Here's a few things I do to get started:

1. I avoid getting the triple and double tap upgrades on Smiths who have them. They throw your aim off and rarely hit the enemy more than once. It's especially useless on Kaede; her critical lock-on is nice but you can't get it while also avoiding the double-tap and that makes zoomed-in shots a pain.

2. In the early levels (ie, before upgrades) and on Killer8, I don't really bother going for the critical points since you're unlikely to hit them and/or you're playing on Killer8 and they don't show up anyway. I blow off the head, then both arms, then finally one leg, which will usually kill the enemy but if it doesn't, then it won't take much after that to do them in. I've found Coyote and Dan are best for this since they do a high amount of reliable damage; if it's before Encounter then I'll prefer Coyote since his charge shot takes one vial and his reload is faster.

3. On Normal and Deadly, I spend a lot of points into Kevin's Critical stat; his unlimited "magazine" and zero hand waver make him ideal for taking out enemies quickly and easily. If your aim's good then it's just as good as having the critical lock-on. No point doing that on Killer8 with the lack of visible critical points though.

4. I don't see many people using both the down attack and counter-attack and I think it's a mistake, both require minor point investment (especially the down attack) and can get you out of a jam, particularly in situations in which the critical points are either unhittable (such as an arm that's been blown off) or not visible at all. The counter-attack is really not that difficult to hit, and you should really have at least 2 points in each skill for each Smith sooner rather than later anyway.

5. I don't invest in Mask de Smith at all, not even during Encounter 1. He can't harvest blood except on specific Smiles that show up on Encounter and virtually nowhere else and he has limited utility otherwise. It's a waste of blood in my opinion.

6. I used to invest in Kevin's invisibility since it avoids all damage, but the level 0 invis is 15 seconds long and each level after that adds 5 seconds per level. I've come to see it as a waste, who's going to spend nearly an entire minute invisible? This is especially true since the invis drops when you enter a new room; Kevin is so fast that getting from one room to another doesn't take very long anyway.

7. "Dodge rolling" is something I avoid but it seems almost unavoidable, especially with Poison Smiles. For those who don't know, a dodge roll is when you play as a Smith who can has a speed boost after a quick 180 turn (meaning, Smiths like Con, Kevin, and Mask, but not Young Harman or Kaede) and you perform that 180 turn just as a Smile is getting ready to pounce on you and blow up; the result is that it blows himself up without damaging you. It's used heavily in speedrunning but it feels cheap, not to mention you'll get no blood for it.

8. I always farm enough thick blood to break the blood machine before moving on to the next level. For those who don't know, there's a blood machine for each location and it has a limit on how much thick blood it can turn into serum. There's one for Angel, two for Sunset (one for the restaurant and one for the Kaku building), one for Cloudman, two for Encounter (one for Iszk Land and one for the Blackburn residence), one for Alter Ego, and one for Smile that is nearly infinite; Lion doesn't have one at all for obvious reasons. I'll make a guide on good farming locations if anyone's interested in that.

9. Lastly, and I'm sure this isn't unique at all, but I'd rather reload a save than send Garcian out to revive someone and risk a game over. I do activate every Harman's Room TV I come across just to be safe, but really, Garcie is so fragile that it's not worth the risk.

That's my two cents on this game, I'm curious if anyone else has different strategies or ideas about playing it.

[Clancy McFancy]

i just play garcian and spam until I win

[YinYin]

I don't think Smiles can actually lose more than 3 body parts. So once 3 are off, it's a single body shot to end it (even a knife will do).

I do go for weak points early, even in Killer8 using knives. The guessing game is kinda fun. And not getting kill streaks would mean I don't get to max out blood without extra grinding. I want that happening as I run through each area only as often as I have to. No more weak point opportunity before maxing out blood (arm with it shot off or already 3 limbs missing) = dodge the explosion to retain the chain. (normal kill, down attack and counter break it > slower blood accumulation - I swap to those for fun once I'm maxed per level)

While double and triple tap are kind of annoying, I don't really care. Dan never gets that much serum and Kaede can use the upgrades either way. So why not fetch critical as well. I get it before the Sunset 1 vinculum gate.

Critical Mask targets do not only appear in Encounter 1. He also takes out Backsides and Giants in one shot. After Kaede he is my second investment in power and range, simply to not bother with Ayame too long (1 shot on normal!).

I never use invisibility unless I need to get past some lasers or maxed out blood and don't want to spend time on some room (rare).

Smile 1 is not near infinite blood by the way (hotel). And Smile 2 (school) is exactly as much as it takes to level 5 everyone.

Garcian is fun. I use him when I lose a persona.

[Jupiter Jazz]

1. I love the tension of the risk involved in sending Garcian to clean up the other personalities.

2. I’m big on counter attacking and special attacks.

3. Kaede is my preferred Smith.

4. Early game is best spent killing Smilies as fast as possible, gaining as much blood as possible.

5. Mask and Con have always been my least favorite Smiths. Mask’s reload time makes him almost not worthwhile and Con is mostly only useful on Smilies that are really fast. I find his lack of accuracy a deterrent in early game.

6. I’ve never gone through Killer 8. I really hope this gets subs soon so I can buy it and play that.

[tipsyConfection]

I would disagree on most points really.
Double Tap barely does any damage to your aim, at least it never did to me, and i'm Coyote main who already has an insane recoil.
Critical Points should always be a priority, even on killer8-- no, ESPECIALLY on killer8 due to possibility of dying in one hit. Plus, it's always better to get as much blood as possible and max out the blood machine as early as possible, so you won't bother later on in the level.
This is also why you SHOULD pump the blood into MASK, due to him being pretty much a death machine with higher levels of power and speed. Personally, in killer7 i usually just play as Coyote for the most part, because i do see the critical points and he's my favourite, but with him i also level up my second favourite, Mask, to use him when the blood machine breaks and you don't need to bother about blood anymore. Though, on killer8 he looses some usability due to the 8th killer becoming available, but he's still the most useful one at least in regards to AYAME, since he doesn't really need to shoot HER, just the GROUND near her (so you also really should pump some blood into Range as well, helps a lot).
And eh, using Garcian is kinda the name of the game, plus he isn't weak and he's accurate enough to hit criticals consistently (which is kinda a problem on killer8 if you can't remember the exact points on the body), and even then his firerate is godlike, so you can just constantly step back and shoot as much lead as possible, then repeat.

[tipsyConfection]

Also, i would suggest everyone to just use the Easy Start cheat on killer8, it's not really worth your suffering.
This is also why i personally main KAEDE in killer8, with Con backing up on certain Smiles like Giant Smiles, and of course Young Harman when the blood machine finally breaks.

[Jupiter Jazz]

Agreed that critical is the most important stat probably next to speed.

[Maddo]

Originally posted by Schmuddel:

2. In the early levels (ie, before upgrades) and on Killer8, I don't really bother going for the critical points since you're unlikely to hit them and/or you're playing on Killer8 and they don't show up anyway.

I disagree with this entirely. If you can aim your shots well, it's always worth going for that critical points. You can knock a few limbs off them go for the final blow. More blood is great. Of course there's a cap on each level but the earlier you get that blood, the earlier you can utlise those upgrades.

By Killer8 you should already have a rough estimate of where critical points are anyway. You should be aiming for those because blood is a fantastic thing to have in that mode, especially if you can reach that critical lock-on skill for Kaede or Con.

[HELLUQARD]

there is a cheat for killer 8?

[Maddo]

Originally posted by hellkite:

there is a cheat for killer 8?

How is that relevant to this thread? And yes, there's a cheat for Killer8. I dunno why you'd want to use it though.

[HELLUQARD]

i didn't know i wanted to know more about it is all.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by hellkite:

i didn't know i wanted to know more about it is all.

There's, yes.
And it only works for killer8.
It's basically a "Quick Start" and it gives you 100 Serum Ampules, which is enough to level up Kaede or Con to Level 4 for the sake of Critical Lock-On.
You can check it out more in Guides section.

[Schmuddel]

Originally posted by Tentacle Monster:

Also, i would suggest everyone to just use the Easy Start cheat on killer8, it's not really worth your suffering.
This is also why i personally main KAEDE in killer8, with Con backing up on certain Smiles like Giant Smiles, and of course Young Harman when the blood machine finally breaks.

Not to be rude but I think the last thing we should be suggesting is using a cheat code.

[tipsyConfection]

Originally posted by Schmuddel:

Not to be rude but I think the last thing we should be suggesting is using a cheat code.

4U.
I think the quick start code is well deserved for everyone who, at least, finished the game on Deadly, and especially for those who already finished killer8 (which i personally did back then on GC).
killer8 handicaps you way too much and this is the only bone it will throw at you... and even then, the game itself will never give you a cheat itself.
It's still hard as all hell on Bloodbath, with or without quick start, since a lot of thing can go wrong, including Critical Lock-On not working properly sometimes.
Without it, killer8 is just painful and sadistic, not "challenging-but-fun/interesting".

[Maddo]

Originally posted by Tentacle Monster:

Originally posted by Schmuddel:

Not to be rude but I think the last thing we should be suggesting is using a cheat code.

4U.
I think the quick start code is well deserved for everyone who, at least, finished the game on Deadly, and especially for those who already finished killer8 (which i personally did back then on GC).
killer8 handicaps you way too much and this is the only bone it will throw at you... and even then, the game itself will never give you a cheat itself.
It's still hard as all hell on Bloodbath, with or without quick start, since a lot of thing can go wrong, including Critical Lock-On not working properly sometimes.
Without it, killer8 is just painful and sadistic, not "challenging-but-fun/interesting".

Killer8 is just as easy without the cheat code. You've played the game enough to know the rough areas of the weak spots. Hell it's even easy to hit them as young harman. All you gotta do is make single shots instead of going nuts with it. I had a lot of fun doing that. Using the cheat code just makes it worth nothing.

Killer8 is definitely not painful nor sadistic if you know what you're doing. You can breeze through it as easily as Deadly.

[Clancy McFancy]

Wait a second, Space Lion doesn't have the steam version?
Didn't know that.